Logic 8 vs Logic 9

[musikwerks]

No it sounds excellent, seriously Kris after any analog processing the "soundglosssheen" type thing tends to disappear for me, I was really refering to stuff done entirely ITB with logic and logic plugs, maybe it's the plugs that do it I dunno.

This time I patched it into my good monitors for a listen and it really fills the lounge room, got big rooms in the new house too. Defineately has the Turtlerock sound to it as well, had a listen to it compared to another CD Rick mastered a while back pre Maya, ummmm I think I hear what the Maya does. :) :) :)

Got ya. I really had my eyes opened to the sonic differences between hardware and plugs. We did use a lot of plugs but the bulk of the sounds were always run through hardware first. Comps like the STA Level and Eq like the GML are just superb.

As to the Maya... I don't know how to explain it but there's some kind of emotional response that it triggers. I know that sounds corny but it's true. Might not work for other genre's but for this music it was a perfect fit. Ask Rick sometime... he might be able to explain it.

[Chris H]

A very respected dj / producer i know has recently dumped logic 9(upgraded from 8) and gone to cubase

he said that it logic 9 had no top end, and to get his usual sound he was having to boost 7 to 9 db in the top end

Has anyone found logic 9 to be lacking in sound quality?

One thing i have found in the past is that when using anything digital, the overall sound quality can change in an instant due to software updates ,
usually for the worst as they try to cram more features in.

I have logic 8 on my mac book and 9 on the latest G5 at work and have not heard a discernible difference. Must say i haven't really listened for one. I will have a detailed listening session after the holidays to hear what gives. On the different DAW topic, I have had the same files up on a mac with logic 8 and a PC with Neuendo in a great listening environment without hearing any difference.

[Sheer Noise]

Musicians like Dan Huff, Paul Leim, Jerry McPherson, Mike Brignardello, etc, etc. Nashville is a very kind compliment... I consider Nashville to be the holy grail.

Dan Huff... man, what a player!

[ChrisW]

Got ya. I really had my eyes opened to the sonic differences between hardware and plugs. We did use a lot of plugs but the bulk of the sounds were always run through hardware first. Comps like the STA Level and Eq like the GML are just superb.

Ahh, ok. Can we revisit that argument about the Fairchild and the plug-in of the same name then?
(Just kidding)

Interested in the way this conversation is going as I'm about to jump into Logic for drum tracking purposes.
Haven't used Logic for ten years.
I'll be using all hardware mic/pre's and outboard, including eq's, comps.
My buddy who makes techno in the UK uses a lot of plug-ins (mostly NOT Logic plugs), but also a lot of good quality outboard too (Neve, Daking, Cranesong).

[Linear]

8-9db sounds like operator error to me.

i use logic almost exclusively, and have never heard of any sort of loss of that magnitude, ever. that said, I rarely use ITB mixes although I do group stuff like guitars to a single stereo output and sometimes use the logic EQ to roll off bottom end garbage.

what i'd suggest you ask your producer friend to do is generate a tone sweep (20-20) then get him to put it through a typical plugin chain, bounce it down and see what comes out the other end. run the tone through some VU's and see what sort of response you get. i'd be very surprised if the top end was down 8-9db. typically, this sort of speculative heresay is quickly quelled with the suggestion of a simple semi-scientific proposal.

Chris

[Linear]

As a matter of (potentially no) interest, I'm starting to know my monitors and room so well that I really notice the most subtle of changes to audio - I'm guessing that this is what we are all work towards no doubt.

For example, flicking my tape machine during tracking between 'input' and 'repro' yields the most difference IMHO. less sub, more bottom, less top, more distortion/noise. I remember hearing no difference at all. Now it's night and day. (note that i can only do this when the band isn't using headphones)

I hate protools with fervent passion, but can honestly say that the difference between DAW's is so miniscule that it's almost completely insignificant compared with what damage you can do using plugins/compressors/eq's etc etc.

I've seen people worrying about what this or that DAW is doing to their music, whilst they simultaneously destroy their audio via a signal path with extreme/unnecessary/completely misguided plugin chains and settings.

Got a logic session the other day - on a vocal chain was 3 EQ's, 3 compressors, a limiter, a de-esser, autotune, and a reverb... I mean, really??? Worse still the individual channels were set so low and the master was still peaking, god knows how. suffice to say, the whole thing sounded like ass.

Just my 2c.

Chris

[mylesgm]

sort of off the topic, but I too am constantly surprised by what is delivered to me to mix with a statement like "doesn't need too much done just a little tweak to give it that extra touch". Every single track duplicated and 'sidechain-ed compressed, eq'd", a different reverb on every channel, no groups, busses, auxes etc. 100 tracks for basically two gtrs, bass and vocals, clipping inside plugins, clipping on tracks, clipping on masters. Three tracks for every instrument because their mic choice/placement was terrible and they couldn't pick which sound was 'better'. Whole track sounds like rubbish regardless of performance and song quality... 'yeah, its almost there, I'll just undo everything you've done and it'll sound way better in 30 seconds..."

I've read a few medical magazines... I think I must be a doctor and able to perform minor heart surgery.

m

[mylesgm]

also thought I was the lone turtlerocker who got up at stupid o'clock to do web stuff... morning Chris!

[Linear]

there's no way i could get up at 5:30am - it's just not me.

where i am at the moment, it's 9:30pm... ;-0

Chris

[mylesgm]

ah... for some odd reason I get up around 4.30 everyday and then back to bed around 6 and sleep till 8... its the way my head works and I'm not touching it. I get a lot done during that hour and a half. where are you?

[Linear]

Continental Europe... and it's cold!!

Chris

[mylesgm]

hah!
loads of my friends are spread between iceland and berlin at the moment. Melbourne is currently in a string of 100+ days above 20 degrees... I'm mixing during the day with the windows open and a slight warm breeze across my desk..

[heathen]

As to the Maya... I don't know how to explain it but there's some kind of emotional response that it triggers. I know that sounds corny but it's true. Might not work for other genre's but for this music it was a perfect fit. Ask Rick sometime... he might be able to explain it.

Dunno just seemed smoother and more detailed through the whole freq range, not gonna use any esoteric descriptions heh. Also would really love a GML eq, they are a superb eq I agree.

Regarding multiple plugins errrrrgggghhhhh, yeah I've seen the same, hell I've even done the same once or twice and realised that once I started removing plugs everything started sounding better, weird eh?

I just realised it was getting me nowhere fast so started buying analog gear and there was no looking back. Yeah I've seen some rediculous plugin chains too. I was getting 10 times better results just using the comps and eq's in my O2R, good thing about the o2R is it won't really let you do anything like making a rediculous plugin chain, heh.

The only plugs that gives me true joy are Altiverb and PSP Xenon, any eq or comp plugs I use go into something outbourd anyway, seems to be what most people are doing who like/use hardware.

So if I start mixing again I'm just going to buy a decent desk and go back to basics, just for the ease of use and the time it saves.

[heathen]

All lead vocals are Wagner U47 into Purple Audio Biz

Farout Kris talk about torturing a U47, hehe. Actually this is the only time I've thought a Biz sounded decent.........


















I'm gonna cop it now.

[waitup]

This time I patched it into my good monitors for a listen and it really fills the lounge room, got big rooms in the new house too. Defineately has the Turtlerock sound to it as well, had a listen to it compared to another CD Rick mastered a while back pre Maya, ummmm I think I hear what the Maya does. :) :) :)

Dare I suggest that the difference you heard was a result of different music, different musicians, different rooms, different mics, pres, compressors, Eq, desk etc etc etc more than a different D to A at mastering?

[musikwerks]

Not at all... I got rid of the Biz pretty soon after that. I felt it was kind of lifeless. I have a TG500 and NV500 now. Much more vibe.

[toddd]

Not Nashville sounding, nor does it have the Turtlerock sound, but it was tracked and mixed almost entirely itb with logic and 2 UAD-1 cards.. Outboard included an AWA Big One, Auditronics 110 strips, Avalon 747. Mic Pres Included Sytecs and Joe Malone BA's.. I'm fairly certain there's no synthetic sheen, you tell me though..

http://itunes.apple.com/au/album/like-a ... d360910637

[heathen]

This time I patched it into my good monitors for a listen and it really fills the lounge room, got big rooms in the new house too. Defineately has the Turtlerock sound to it as well, had a listen to it compared to another CD Rick mastered a while back pre Maya, ummmm I think I hear what the Maya does. :) :) :)

Dare I suggest that the difference you heard was a result of different music, different musicians, different rooms, different mics, pres, compressors, Eq, desk etc etc etc more than a different D to A at mastering?

Well Nick that's plain obvious to take into account......... Is'nt this what masterinmg is about though, getting a certain sonic quality and consistancy that is recognisable? I know some people feel this way.

[heathen]

Not at all... I got rid of the Biz pretty soon after that. I felt it was kind of lifeless. I have a TG500 and NV500 now. Much more vibe.

Yeah I got in trouble on GS for saying the MA5 sucked, was'nt gonna go for a 2nd round with the biz, could have got ugly real quick . :)

[musikwerks]

If you thought the MA5 sucked then you would reeeeeallllly hate the Biz.

[heathen]

If you thought the MA5 sucked then you would reeeeeallllly hate the Biz.

I did, tried them at Nic's place a few times. :)

[Martin]

Yeah, I tracked/produced it.

It's BIG! :)

Whats the deal with autotune? did she need it much?

[musikwerks]

No. One or two tickles on a phrase or two but otherwise it's been left alone.