Uh Oh!

[OzDrum]

Our HD2 Accel system runs flawlessly without a Digidesign Interface - we have a Lynx Aurora 16, an Apogee 16X and a UA2192 converters hanging off it. Obviously you still need the DSP processing power on the cards
to run HD properly. We also have a UAD2 Quad card running the UAD plugins. This gives us 34 inputs at once - I think we've rarely used 20 at once on most sessions and have never run out of processing power, track count or voices unless we haven't managed a session properly. The backup support from Digi has always been exceptional with any issues sorted quickly as well and a crack free environment has definitely kept us "crash" free also!

[musikwerks]

Try that at home avid!

Actually, Avid did the very same thing for me last week.... wrote a software patch to get us back up and running.

I am kind of surprised at most responses here. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to use Tools?

Nuendo, Cubase, Logic, Reaper, Presonus, SSL, Boom Recorder.... there are plenty of options if you don't like it.

As to the car analogy.... what you buy with Tools HD are not optional add ons... they are all part of the engine, so to speak.

Regadless, technology is always a bad investment. It NEVER holds its value.... never. To think otherwise is totally wishful thinking.

[Chris H]

So to sum up .....business is business...ignore, of treat your customer base poorly at your peril....simple really. Again it points to arrogance and blind group think mentality at Avid. This added with other issues and the writing seems on the wall, .....as in change is inevitable and Avid looks like being forced into some changes it would otherwise never implement.

[Linear]

my only beef with avid is the software restrictions on IO, voices and hardware. it's all about extracting (or in my opinion, extorting) the maximum amount of money from their user base.

if you were to use the car analogy, it'd be like buying a car that has several 'restrictions' built into it.

so the 'standard' car goes at a electronically-limited maximum speed of 80 km/h, even though it's more than capable of going 200 km/h. want to go faster? you need to pay the manufacturer more money for an 'upgrade kit' that eliminates this restriction.

and oh, you can't just use petrol from any company - it has to come from the manufacturer, and they charge what they like. and you can only use roads owned by the manufacturer, the car doesn't work on normal roads.


that is why there is such a backlash against avid. if they had a bigger market share this would be called an abuse of market power, which is illegal. there is nothing wrong with a company making money - that's capitalism. it's abusing that power and taking advantage of market position that really stinks and pisses everybody off.

Chris

[Sammas]

Try that at home avid!

Actually, Avid did the very same thing for me last week.... wrote a software patch to get us back up and running.

I am kind of surprised at most responses here. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to use Tools?

Nuendo, Cubase, Logic, Reaper, Presonus, SSL, Boom Recorder.... there are plenty of options if you don't like it.

Absolutely... but how did you expect us to react? Should we be sending Avid flowers and our condolences? It
ultimately just reaffirms why I opted out of digidesign and protools in the first place. Like I said... pure apathy.

I wouldn't get worried about it. Use what works for you...

As to the car analogy.... what you buy with Tools HD are not optional add ons... they are all part of the engine, so to speak.

To continue the analogy... that makes it one expensive, and under-powered engine by comparison then doesn't it? I could have a 12core mac pro and still only ever get 32(?) tracks in LE unless I spend money on extras... even then I only get 48tracks max regardless of how CPU intensive those tracks maybe. Similar restrictions apply for HD and their dsp cards. More tracks? Gotta buy more cards. According to the article I linked in the first post, it is for no technical reason whatsoever.

Regadless, technology is always a bad investment. It NEVER holds its value.... never. To think otherwise is totally wishful thinking.

I guess it depends what you are doing with it. A bought a nice digital SLR camera a few months ago and it has already recouped it price tag in film that I haven't needed to develop. Not only can digital technology offer better bang for buck, it can also be a lot more efficient. ...that's a whole 'nother type of value really.

[musikwerks]

Totally understand your POV's.

But... you knew all about the restrictions etc when you got into it.... right?

[Sammas]

Totally understand your POV's.

But... you knew all about the restrictions etc when you got into it.... right?

When I got in it they weren't "restrictions". In the context of the technology being
offered at the time they were actually key selling points. HD was released at the
same time as the 2.4ghz pentium 4 was.

A lot has changed in 8 years, particularly in computing technlogy... protools hasn't
though and that is what leaves me shaking my head.

[mark rachelle]

Re the car

what i am referring to is this

take the new Mercedes designs

the had the previous generation SL 55 perfect IMO
nothing to change, the pinnacle of perfection

now a new square design that goes all the way back to American 70s cadillacs (quite a step backwards IMO)

now we have the same game again of getting better all over again little bit by little bit
mid life face lifts,
smoothing of the lines
a slight upgrade here or there.
and slowly but surely your "investment" (or better put, time, money and LIFES ENERGY) is being depleted

What we dont see is that this is all well and truely planned out years ahead

car manufactures know dam well what their cars will look like in 10 years time
so to does digidesign

so systematically our purchases will be down graded and we will be left wanting more
and feeling obsolete when the newer model (err its the same car with a slight change) (or the same software with some extra features added) comes out

then marketing takes over to make you feel the gap between what you have now, and what you think you want!

now i am not saying that any of this this is wrong
its just that we spend our whole lives energy running around trying to be/ create/ have something that is cleverly marketed and accounted in a way that our efforts are redundant in 2 years.

Our ego's enjoy the purchase, but that feeling of satisfaction quickly goes and we are left wanting more.

Big companies know this and have perfected it to their advantage

its at the core level of integrity within the financial free market.

at some point this way has to change as our species evolves.

We need Companies, individuals, legal authorities and governments, to have at their core values respect for the energy, and transformation of others.

unfortunatley we still live in a world of exploitation and making others wrong for our own game
so i guess that brings me to my point in the big scheme of things (ie billions of suns, and trillions of planets) hacking isnt wrong its just illegal and has no integrity.

[musikwerks]

good observations mark.

[vanderlae]

Are you still driving that '55 Merc?

;)

Re the car

what i am referring to is this

take the new Mercedes designs

the had the previous generation SL 55 perfect IMO
nothing to change, the pinnacle of perfection

now a new square design that goes all the way back to American 70s cadillacs (quite a step backwards IMO)

now we have the same game again of getting better all over again little bit by little bit
mid life face lifts,
smoothing of the lines
a slight upgrade here or there.
and slowly but surely your "investment" (or better put, time, money and LIFES ENERGY) is being depleted

What we dont see is that this is all well and truely planned out years ahead

car manufactures know dam well what their cars will look like in 10 years time
so to does digidesign

so systematically our purchases will be down graded and we will be left wanting more
and feeling obsolete when the newer model (err its the same car with a slight change) (or the same software with some extra features added) comes out

then marketing takes over to make you feel the gap between what you have now, and what you think you want!

now i am not saying that any of this this is wrong
its just that we spend our whole lives energy running around trying to be/ create/ have something that is cleverly marketed and accounted in a way that our efforts are redundant in 2 years.

Our ego's enjoy the purchase, but that feeling of satisfaction quickly goes and we are left wanting more.

Big companies know this and have perfected it to their advantage

its at the core level of integrity within the financial free market.

at some point this way has to change as our species evolves.

We need Companies, individuals, legal authorities and governments, to have at their core values respect for the energy, and transformation of others.

unfortunatley we still live in a world of exploitation and making others wrong for our own game
so i guess that brings me to my point in the big scheme of things (ie billions of suns, and trillions of planets) hacking isnt wrong its just illegal and has no integrity.

[jithknot]

my little conspiracy driven mind wonders if avid have done this themselves to ensnare a few thousand people who have willingly broken the copyright laws by d/l this cracked version. After all if they sense they have lost the grip on the marketshare or that customers grumblings have reached critical level could they have done this to throw people off? after all, for all we know they could very well have been working on some sort of new proprietary security measure for a while now.
my un-educated 2c.

I kind of agree to your statement, as i have heard rumors, and read on forums about the developers of WA*ES (and PACE apparently)had a huge part in cracking all the plug-ins.
and guess what??
its the same people who have cracked HD and M-powered.
so yeah, there might be something to this.

[Mac]

Some have mused that the "industry standard" may not be top dog forever....

Perhaps this is just one of the (many) nails in the coffin???

Mac

[Sammas]

my little conspiracy driven mind wonders if avid have done this themselves to ensnare a few thousand people who have willingly broken the copyright laws by d/l this cracked version. After all if they sense they have lost the grip on the marketshare or that customers grumblings have reached critical level could they have done this to throw people off? after all, for all we know they could very well have been working on some sort of new proprietary security measure for a while now.
my un-educated 2c.

I kind of agree to your statement, as i have heard rumors, and read on forums about the developers of WA*ES (and PACE apparently)had a huge part in cracking all the plug-ins.
and guess what??
its the same people who have cracked HD and M-powered.
so yeah, there might be something to this.

Well... to further add to the conspiracies. Weren't a large number of digidesign's programmers laid off recently??

[spandex man]

I am kind of surprised at most responses here. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to use Tools?

I use Pro Tools. I really enjoy working on it.

[The Tasmanian]

I have always said they are corporate thieves (after over $100,000.00 spent on HD and LE setups)
Now a 10,000 track count for HD....I rest my case - they deserve what they had (have) coming!
I'm pissed off even more now - I could smell something on the bottom of my shoes for more than a decade now

[smash]

Let's be fair though here folks.

Aren't we also paying for reliability.

I use logic, it's mainly a hobby, even though I do some paid work with it.

I remember asking a friend who exclusively used HD, why he spent the extra $$$.

His response was it was worth the extra for the extra 2% reliability, 2% (his numbers not mine) could make all the difference, when he was mixing 90+ tracks for a soundtrack, and there is a client in the room.

Funnily enough, 3 years later, in our edit suites, we have video output cards that are 5 times the price of their nearest competitors, and have less features, for exactly the same reason.

[Damien]

just to let you know... as i cant read... it is hd/m-powered... doesnt work with LE....

[Chris H]

An interesting read first hand from inside Avid.....

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Avid-T ... eviews-E22 91.htm

[headman]

"Disorganised"....I like that

headman

[jithknot]

just to let you know...

this thing does work BUT it WONT use your original hardware... YOUR PROTOOLS HARDWARE WILL NO LONGER WORK.... only the "patch" hardware... that comes out the built in speaker/headphone outs....

you do get more tracks, voices etc (no delay comp, TDM or DSP based items).. so you can edit/listen to a larger session until the computer falls over...

but you cant monitor or RECORD with the real hardware...

Actually it does.
its pro tools HD/mpowered cracked with emulation, that is, you can either use tools as usual using your ptools interface(hd or m-audio) and it works just like normal. or you can use the emulation to use the onboard soundcard OR any other audio interface.