stolen gear from mix masters

[a.beck]

Dude.

[heathen]

Good to see something coming of it and some gear coming back, good work guys.

Even when deadly serious smileys are a good idea. :) :) I learnt that the hard way. :( :(


:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

[rob]

Mickstape, keep in mind that the guys that stole this stuff from Mixmasters are just a bunch of junkie / crooks, not wannabe recording engineers.
This of course doesn't make their behaviour any less unacceptable, but not worth your call to arms. If fact any attempt such as you propose would probably just result in you getting a knife stuck in your guts. Let it go.

[prequalizer]

So what happens to the pawn shop, do they loose money for buying it off the thieves?

What happens to the gear retrieved, is that sold off as still new, ex-demo, used, etc by the store?

Do you think it would be fair to a buyer if gear was retrieved and sold off as if it was new, if the gear had been used even slightly by potential thieves or new owners that had to give it back?

[musikwerks]

Do you really think a junkie is going to plug it in and fire it up?

They stole it purely for cash to buy their next fix.

[prequalizer]

Do you really think a junkie is going to plug it in and fire it up?

They stole it purely for cash to buy their next fix.

Someone has to plug it in, to check if it's working?

[musikwerks]

Then it's no different to being powered up in the showroom.

New.

[prequalizer]

Then it's no different to being powered up in the showroom.

New.

Powered up in the showrooms are Demos, or floor demos. Once it is powered up at the store, it's not new anymore.

[NYMo]

Hi there,

I spent nearly 20 years selling new MI gear *off the floor *.

Demo gear was stuff that had been loaned to people for evaluation in
their own studio or home.

(Just to clarify the terms :)

cheers
N
Y
M
O

[HA_DA_JA]

The pawn shop loses its money. Thats why they dont pay much for the stuff.
They then seek damages from the guilty party at the court hearing but the likely hood of getting paid by them is about 5%. Who heard of a druggie paying for something they stole?
It then goes on there official record as a debt outstanding and it makes it harder for them to get credit from a bank or anyplace.
They get banned (by the owner) from doing business from there pawn store so they have shot themselves in the foot. Because they usually get off lightly form the judge over a stealing case they are back on the streets.
They now have no source of quick money and things get downhill from there. Talk about a bad lifesytle they had before they were busted now it s just living out a hell. Sometimes jail is a much safer nicer place where at least you get feed and some freedom like electricity tv ect.
This is a growing problem in our society.

[musikwerks]

Then it's no different to being powered up in the showroom.

New.

Powered up in the showrooms are Demos, or floor demos. Once it is powered up at the store, it's not new anymore.

Does it even matter? Or are you that tight you would haggle over the price of gear because it was stolen and not "new"? Geez man, just be happy MM are getting their gear back.

[Mickstape]

Good to see something coming of it and some gear coming back, good work guys.

Even when deadly serious smileys are a good idea. :) :) I learnt that the hard way. :( :(


:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

woops.

I'm also available for childrens parties, jewish weddings and hens nights. :) :) :-0

[prequalizer]

Then it's no different to being powered up in the showroom.

New.

Powered up in the showrooms are Demos, or floor demos. Once it is powered up at the store, it's not new anymore.

Does it even matter? Or are you that tight you would haggle over the price of gear because it was stolen and not "new"? Geez man, just be happy MM are getting their gear back.

Yes of course. Why shouldn't I? If I am paying top dollar for something, I expect it to be what it is. Some people save years, to buy something new, so they should expect it. That doesn't give a store an excuse to sell something as "new" if it isn't. MM should be happy they got their gear back, so it's good karma to be honest to their potential buyers as well.

I remember I paid close to 4 grand for a new eq, and when I opened, it, the plastic wrapper was gone, and some scratches on the unit. I was furious!!!

[Mickstape]

Then it's no different to being powered up in the showroom.

New.

Powered up in the showrooms are Demos, or floor demos. Once it is powered up at the store, it's not new anymore.

Does it even matter? Or are you that tight you would haggle over the price of gear because it was stolen and not "new"? Geez man, just be happy MM are getting their gear back.

Yes of course. Why shouldn't I? If I am paying top dollar for something, I expect it to be what it is. Some people save years, to buy something new, so they should expect it. That doesn't give a store an excuse to sell something as "new" if it isn't. MM should be happy they got their gear back, so it's good karma to be honest to their potential buyers as well.

I remember I paid close to 4 grand for a new eq, and when I opened, it, the plastic wrapper was gone, and some scratches on the unit. I was furious!!!

Not taking any sides here but if i paid 4k for something "brand new" ITB and it had scratches on it i'd be sending/taking it back and having some choice words to say about it. Some peoples business standards are farking terrible these days. And the offending party/ies would never EVER get my coin again.

[musikwerks]

Now I remember why I blocked you from my ebay auctions.

[wez]

on the other side of the coin.... how can we expect to get retailers to lend out high-end gear on trial to us if they then have to discount it heavily if we don't buy it? sure if it has obvious scratches, missing packaging or other signs of of use, then maybe it should be sold as ex-demo... but not too many stores are going to have a 'demo' vari-mu lying around for you to play with. i used to get a bit uptight about that sort of thing... but now i think, hey, after it's been in my studio for a couple weeks it will be 'used' anyway. and i'll be just as happy with it.

[prequalizer]

on the other side of the coin.... how can we expect to get retailers to lend out high-end gear on trial to us if they then have to discount it heavily if we don't buy it? sure if it has obvious scratches, missing packaging or other signs of of use, then maybe it should be sold as ex-demo... but not too many stores are going to have a 'demo' vari-mu lying around for you to play with. i used to get a bit uptight about that sort of thing... but now i think, hey, after it's been in my studio for a couple weeks it will be 'used' anyway. and i'll be just as happy with it.

I don't know, but it seems like gone are the days when stores would buy one unit to use as a demo or floor model and leave the new stuff in their store room to be sold off to buyers. I think if a buyer is buying something new, then sell him a new product. If a person wants to try a unit out and maybe buy, then I think it is up to the person to make that decision if they do not mind buying a unit that's been used as a try and buy model.

If I buy a unit, I do not return it unless there is something wrong with it, so I do not expect a store to sell me a used item because buying a new unit that someone else has tried out or used, is not NEW. This is just my opinion, I do not do what some of you guys do where you try and buy stuff, so I guess you do not mind that, but if I save up for a couple of years for a unit and done all my research for it, I do not want to spend money on a new item that is used, otherwise I will just buy a used unit which is usually in pretty good nick if you shop patiently.

[Ausrock]

So all those 100s or 1000s of instruments and all those amps, etc., in stores around the country that have been "trialed" by every man and their dog should not be sold as a new item???

[NYMo]

Hi there,

One thing I've learnt after working in MI for a long time
is ..buy used !
(ok...maybe not Macs !)

Everything loses nearly 40% as soon as you walk out the shop door !

cheers
N
Y
M
O

[no-fi]

I don't know, but it seems like gone are the days when stores would buy one unit to use as a demo or floor model and leave the new stuff in their store room to be sold off to buyers.

gee... I wonder why that is?


http://www.turtlerockmastering.com/foru ... php?t=3465

I would buy from the cheapest place thats established, even ebay or online should be considered. Most items that do become faulty has passed their warranty dates.

In my opinion, a good relationship with a music shop is when they give you very good prices all the time and for that, you buy from them all the time.

hmmm.... yeah.... perhaps this attitude is why?

Because if any shops DID bother to buy a store only demo unit, you'd come into the shop and run your greasy hands all over it and try it out, then go and ask them to compete with the price from someone on ebay who doesn't have the same kind of costs as the shop that you helped yourself to a demo from, right?

bottom line - you can't have everything both ways, and you already stated your preference for cheap versus anything else, so yeah.... enjoy the world you helped create...

[Ausrock]

I don't know, but it seems like gone are the days when stores would buy one unit to use as a demo or floor model and leave the new stuff in their store room to be sold off to buyers.

gee... I wonder why that is?


http://www.turtlerockmastering.com/foru ... php?t=3465

I would buy from the cheapest place thats established, even ebay or online should be considered. Most items that do become faulty has passed their warranty dates.

In my opinion, a good relationship with a music shop is when they give you very good prices all the time and for that, you buy from them all the time.

hmmm.... yeah.... perhaps this attitude is why?

Because if any shops DID bother to buy a store only demo unit, you'd come into the shop and run your greasy hands all over it and try it out, then go and ask them to compete with the price from someone on ebay who doesn't have the same kind of costs as the shop that you helped yourself to a demo from, right?

bottom line - you can't have everything both ways, and you already stated your preference for cheap versus anything else, so yeah.... enjoy the world you helped create...

WORD!!!

[Mickstape]

Now I remember why I blocked you from my ebay auctions.

was that aimed at me Kristian? i've never been blocked from anywhere to my knowledge. You wouldnt have anything i want anyway champ. Well anything that i couldnt get somewhere else that is.

[prequalizer]

What's your point?

A consumer getting the most from their money is a great attitude. I don't shop at Myers if I can get a good price for the same style clothing at Dimmeys. Is there something wrong with that, or should I buy from Myers to make you happy?

You should tell people to stop buying from that new store Comos or something since its not helping stores like Coles and Woolworths.

[no-fi]

my point is, the level of product quality you expect from low volume specialty shops is inconsistent with the way you choose to spend your money.

Any shop that has to buy 4 units to sell 3 will always have a 33% higher cost per unit sold... and you said in that other thread that all want are best prices...

so guess what? no special demo model anymore. of course you still demand to go into the shop and try out something before parting with your $4000.... so the unit you end up buying has been taken out of the box and powered on and used by other people. awwww. this is the inevitable result of your way of doing things. have a nice consumer experience.

[prequalizer]

my point is, the level of product quality you expect from low volume specialty shops is inconsistent with the way you choose to spend your money.

Any shop that has to buy 4 units to sell 3 will always have a 33% higher cost per unit sold... and you said in that other thread that all want are best prices...

so guess what? no special demo model anymore. of course you still demand to go into the shop and try out something before parting with your $4000.... so the unit you end up buying has been taken out of the box and powered on and used by other people. awwww. this is the inevitable result of your way of doing things. have a nice consumer experience.

Why would it have a 33% higher cost per unit sold.

The demo model, the shops usually sell for what they picked it up for or a little less?

The shops should just stop this try and buy offer because these selfish shoppers are stuffing up the consumers that are expecting to buy a new unit. I am presuming, It's people like you who go out there and buy a unit thinking its some renta-vision store and give it a good trash so that they know whether its a unit they like and if they don't, they just trash it anyways because they are going to return it within 7 days and try other units they can trash and then make all the units in the store all used!

Lets keep new as new and used as used. There should be no in between lines. If you are going to spend money on a new unit, try a demo from a store that has a demo model and not a store that lets you try a new unit and rebox it and sell it to other consumers as new. That's just deceitful.

Tomorrow, I will go down to a car yard and buy myself a brand new 1986 Holden. Even though it has 200,000 klms on the clock, its still new, its just been tried alot but so far no takers.

[Linear]

I have found that more often than not, those who use price as the overarching consideration for where they source their gear are not using it in a professional capacity. IOW home hackers that use the equipment for personal use, and who don't derive a majority of their income from it tend to cast their 'dollar votes' based solely on the cheapest price.

I sincerely believe that when you start treating equipment as income-producing capital, from a business perspective, the price matters less and the service matters more. And by service I mean availability, flexibility, warranty, advice etc etc. I'm not saying I always have done this, but I do now.

For example, I purchased some apogee converters from sound devices. I could probably have bought them OS, or from ebay or whatever, but I chose to buy them locally. After using my initial setup for 3 months, I decided that it was far from ideal and that a slightly different configuration would have been better. So do you know what they did? Allowed me to exchange for my preferred setup (symphony instead of firewire, DA16X instead of miniDAC). Try doing that via ebay/OS retailer.

As for new being new and used being used - I'd have to say John that I reckon you're waaaay off the mark. If you're a retailer like Harvey Norman or JB HIFI or even IKEA, you work on volume to make money. In fact, IKEA make around 0.5% markup on the items that they sell. They can sell 'shop soiled' or 'ex demo' stuff at or below cost purely through the volumes that are sold.

Audio equipment retailers I would say aren't in this category, they wouldn't do anything near the volume. If I wanted to buy something, and the retailer wouldn't let me try it out, then I'd think twice about buying it (especially for something like an EQ or compressor). So if they do let me try it, and just because I ~don't~ buy it, does that mean that they now have to make a loss on it? I'd think not. I tried a Manley Varimu, didn't like it so didn't buy it. I had it for a week - and looked after it. I don't see why they would have to sell it at a large discount now and lose money on it.

If you're not happy about buying something that has potentially been turned on, tried or tested - then don't complain that the shop never lets you try anything before you buy. You can't have it both ways!!

Chris

[musikwerks]

Sorry Mick... not you. :-)

[musikwerks]

The shops should just stop this try and buy offer because these selfish shoppers are stuffing up the consumers that are expecting to buy a new unit. I am presuming, It's people like you who go out there and buy a unit thinking its some renta-vision store and give it a good trash so that they know whether its a unit they like....

oh maaaaaan...... you so don't get it. You think Julian is that kinda guy????

Tomorrow, I will go down to a car yard and buy myself a brand new 1986 Holden. Even though it has 200,000 klms on the clock, its still new, its just been tried alot but so far no takers.

Not even in the same ball park.

Bottom line, for me as I see it based on your previous posts and my selling experiences with you, is that John, you're a cheap ass. You really are. You want all the benefits of a boutique store but demand unreasonably low prices in line with online sellers who have no real world overheads, who don't have staff, super and insurance to pay or premises to lease. You cannot have it both ways and it is attitudes like yours that have helped create the retail situations we see now.

You can't cry arsonists when it's you that helped start the fire.

[heathen]

My opinion is if a high end piece of audio gear has less than 50 or 100 hours of use it's still new, a bit of rack rash, big deal, as long as it sounds right then what's the problem?

Deeper to this conversation is online sales and service. To start with the free trade agreement is killing our economy, anything under $1000 imported attracts no tax at all, this is really crook for local suppliers, extremely unfair in my opinion. A lot of the time in the old days before this some retailers went for the biggest cash grab they could get, which did them no favours with sales either.

Now it seems a deal can usually be reached which is fair for both, you still get warranty and support (usually) and the store gets to make a profit. I agree that customer service is at an all time low, I think this has a lot to do with customers themselves. Being a business owner why even try to be nice when the customer haggles over everything even after the best price is offered. With comments like "oh I'll just buy it ebay if you don't match the price". No wonder retailers are getting defensive before you even start to chat with them about a purchase. I always ask for a best price and usually accept it if fair, or politely decline if not fair.

I've heard coonversations retailers have with customers and sometimes the customer will be near screaming at them down the phone demanding a cheaper price. The best defence in that situation is to just say "well f@#% off and get it elsewhere and don't bother me again", why be nice, no point.

Bad customers just are'nt worth it.

Anyway as for shopping, I refuse to buy from Co@#$ or Wool@#$%#*, I buy my meat from Port Macquarie cheaper and better than any old boot Wooli#$% could ever dish up and all my vegies and fruit from a market co op all delivered to my door, buying it local from Aussies really is the way to go.

[Mickstape]

sweet as Kris, just making sure that the cease fire is still on dude.

As for this whole debate, John, without being snide it is attitudes like yours who have helped uli behrenger and the other "pro-sumer" manufacturers force their cheap and useless junk onto the more discerning pro audio buyers market. You always are going to get what you pay for. If you expect to pay 4k for something worth 7k brand new because it had a few scratches on it then the manufacturers of "Quality" gear would go out of business, not to mention the distributors as they would be inundated with jewish types trying to strip them of their hard earned dollar. <no offence intended to any jewish types on here>

Remember dude, good audio gear aint made in china, well some of the components may be sourced from there but this would be the exception to the the rule. Maybe in the world of whitegoods, electricals and motor vehicles this could be the case due to the volume of their product manufactured, exactly as Chris and Co mentioned, but not with quality audio gear. I found that out after selling EVERYTHING i had that was pro-sumer just to buy one microphone.

I remember my first tool buying experience as an apprentice, my pa said spend wisely and buy quality. Being a youthful twit i thought if i can buy 5 hammers for the price of one so i can get a better trowel then i'm buying five. It wasn't until those five hammers had been tossed within 6 months that i paid for a quality hammer. Which i still own to this day.

Bottom line though, is that if i was to buy something that was described as "New" then that is what i expect when it gets to me. New, no use and definitely no marks or cosmetic blemishes. That said if the description mentions something similar to the damage just described and there is a small percentage cost reduction due to this then you can't complain. I'm sure you can see the reason behind this people?

My 2c.