u47 comparison

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u47 comparison

Postby Zarven Kara » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:51 am

Hi guys, I am saving at the moment to buy a u47 and am looking at a few options. I wanted to find out if anyone has had experience with the u47 FET from Beezneez compared to one of the Neumann reissues? Im thinking for the price of a Neumann I could get the Tribute 1 tube 47 and a get 47 from Beezneez for the same price. If anyone has used or has any of these 3 can you give us some feedback on your experiences with them... cheers
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby walding » Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:05 pm

A U47 and U47fet are very different beasts, which ones are you talking about or want?

Ps if you want a U47, there is only one way to get one, BUY an original.

The Gunter one (I've never used one) by nearly all accounts, is the next best.
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby Zarven Kara » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:44 pm

Hey Mark, well I was considering buying both of the beezneez, 1 FET for drums and double bass and the Valve for jazz vocals. I would only have enough for an original Neumann FET i reakon but if I went the beezneez option I could probably get them both.....
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby walding » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:12 pm

Ah makes sense now.

I've personally never used a beezneez, but I've only heard good things about them.

The u47fet is a great bass amp mic.
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby rowmat » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:57 pm

I can't comment on the Beezneez but we do have a Flea 47 (F7/EF12) valve mic and it is excellent.

I did compare the Neumann U47 FET reissue with the Flea 47 when I was deciding on a 47 style mic and the Flea 47 won hands down.

In fact I didn't like the Neumann U47 FET much at all for vocals.

However, as mentioned, the U47 FET is a very different mic compared to the valve version.

I guess that's why FET U47's tend to wind up on kick drums and the U47 valve gets used on vocals.
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby Ben M » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:50 am

Hey Zarven
For me your question comes down to investment. (Whoa in the audio biz? Investment? $-) )
A vintage Neumann will hold its price (and goes up in value), however (sadly) a Beesneez mic will depreciate as soon as it arrives at your place.
The question of sound is up to you and your tastes.
I have a bundle of older Neumann's that I've had plenty of great use out of over the years.. beautiful sound, well maintained, beautiful design, reliable, psychologically fulfilling ...etc and they've appreciated dramatically since I've owned them.
In short, both choices will be of high quality, but clones won't hold value.
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby rowmat » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:25 pm

On one hand I don't disagree with Ben's suggestion about buying a real vintage Neumann however, I think that opportunity has long passed for many. Genuine Neumann U47 valve mics are now breaking the $15,000 AUD barrier and even vintage U47 FET's are hitting $6000 and above

Hats off to those who managed to pickup vintage bargains 10 to 20 years ago when many of these mics were $2000 or less. I was told a story by a retired radio broadcast chap who sold two Neumann 67's 20 years ago for $500 each.
I would think a single U67 would now fetch more than $10,000 AUD.

I even managed to buy a Neumann U77 about 25 years ago for $300.

The internet and pro recording forums like this one have pretty much put an end to these bargains.

I would not hesitate purchasing something like a Flea 47 Vintage for around $5,500 AUD new or even better if you could find a good used example for $4000-$4500.

That would ensure you would be unlikey to lose much if you ended up reselling down the track.

In the meantime you could be using your 'lowly' U47 clone to earn an income much sooner than it would take you to save the $15,000 to buy a decent vintage U47 valve by which time it would probably have jumped to $20,000.

This YouTube video is what 'sold' me on the Flea 47. The micpre used in the clip was not a $4000 Neve or some esoteric vintage rarity it is actually the standard very crappy/noisy mic preamp in a portable Zoom recorder.

Brad is around 2 feet from the mic and I believe the reverberation is mostly natural room ambience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1jmvuQ1sLs

NOTE: The tiny Zoom recorder is literally touching the base of the mic stand. If you look carefully you will see it. The larger black rectangular box that the mic is plugged into is simply the mic's power supply, not any kind of preamp.

Nearly everyone who uses the Flea 47 in our studio asks the first time they hear themselves speak into it... "What mic is this? It sounds amazing!"
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby Zarven Kara » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:12 pm

All good advice, yes a lot of people are saying that the Flea is the top of the pick, I've pretty much given up on getting a real valve 47 as they are through the roof now. I have been speaking with Gunter Wagner and he recommended trying to get a UM57 instead. He thinks that they are a great mic, most of them need the diaphragm replaced or repaired and so they have a bad wrap as most people think they are way to heavy on the mid range but with a little work they can sound amazing, so that might be an option as well. I reakon for the moment the flea might be the way to go....
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby rick » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:24 am

Without a doubt a healthy u47 fet is the most versatile and therefore best buy neumann
Microphone .
Its a stellar vocal mic the best guitar mic , drums bass acoustic guiar
The lot .
The idea that they are no good for vocals is laughable .
They are also obvously the best kick mic availble

I have lots of tube neumanns if you cant get a u47/ 48 and must have a tube
Get a u57/ cmv m7 reskin them and get on with it.
I have lots of all those

I have two u47 fets
If they werent 5 k each i would have ten !
I am as broke as any of us .
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby rick » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:40 am

The difference between my very healthy kk 47 neumann u47 longbody and all my other kk47/ m7 neuman mics including the fet 47 is not freq response but the quality and dare i say magic of the proxinity effect

On my voice i feel it in a sec

The cmv m7 is a close version
The fet 47 doesnt do it
But for many singers that can actially sing and dont whsiper
And play the mic like i need to cause i cannot sing
The difference is not a viable reason to pay 20,000 for A mic

The m49 , u87, u67, c12 dont have this proximty thing going on
The cmv m7 does the u57 does but just not as over the top as the u47

Do all the clones do it ?
I dunno .
But 2 feet from a vocal u47 chain will speak absolutetly nothing about the reasons you would insist in having a " real"
U47 , you have to get right up on top of it .
Then have a limiter in the chain as well to get the classic u47 sound !
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby rick » Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:44 am

I dislike the " distortion" i hear in some u47 type mics
I dont hear it in my mics .
I only really hear it in internet posts about vf-14 tubes :)

There is so much misinformation on the web
And it just gets repeated to the point people have made
Distorted tube mics and call them -u47 types !
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby Zarven Kara » Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:14 pm

Hey Rick when you say 57 are you talking about the UM57 from Gefell?
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby rick » Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:01 pm

I an talking about a 1950s um 57 from george neumann and co .
Built in the original factory in geffel that also built the classic neumann cmv and u47

You can tell the early ones .. They are not painted they have round neumann badges .

The laterones from about 1958 onewards are still the same design but i have seen
Really poor quality control gdr rft ones .
( and also excellent gdr rft )
The cmv 563 with a m7s capsule is about 6 db more gain due to its fixed cardiod then the otherwise the same
Circuit and parts Um 57 with a variable capsule

I believe the hotter cmv pushes the tube closer into the proximity effect bass bloom of the u 47

That said i like the aesthetic of the um57 more the the cmv
In comparison the um57 to the u67 the um 57 is still very much like an updated u47
And the u67 is a very different microphone .
Tractors versus motoboats .
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby berkfinger » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:49 am

Used the Voxorama 47 a lot, made by Gunter's good friend Andreas Grosser in Berlin. Sounds great, even without a tube!

http://www.voxorama.com/mikrofone/detai ... yp-47.html
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby rick » Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:46 pm

The tube is the problem in a u47 not the solution !
I am very interested in changing vf-14 for adreas solid state version
I will at some point no doubt .
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby Ben M » Sun Apr 24, 2016 10:30 am

I have the AG VF-14 in my newly restored U47 and it does a great job. Reliable and sounds very good.
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby Zarven Kara » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:02 pm

ok I have an offer for an original FET in great condition for $5k. What do you guys think about the price? Damn its a lot of money.....
Last edited by Zarven Kara on Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby Zarven Kara » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:09 pm

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Re: u47 comparison

Postby walding » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:09 pm

Zarven Kara wrote:ok I have an offer for an original FET in great condition for $5k. What do you guys think about the price? Damn its a lot of money.....


I don't know, seems at the high end, and they have been reissued....
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby walding » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:27 pm

Ps there is a U47 fet on mixmasters for 4400...
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby rick » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:39 pm

A new capsule / resin will cost you $800-900 + service $350-500 so unless you know lots about microphones you just have to factor that into a LDC old neumann .
That said $5000 aud is top dollar and it looks like a really nice mic in my book its ok to pay top dollar for great condition vintage neumanns .

If you could find a reissue one for the same money I would take the reissue and save yourself the 1200-1500 worry for the next ten years .

but if i could afford and wanted that mic thats the quality of vintage ones worth buying.
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby The Tasmanian » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:20 am

I have never heard a great 47 fet - always been underwhelmed.
I would never choose one for vocal recording.
For 4-5k, I think is there are much better sounding / more versatile mics around for that sort of money.
But maybe I've never heard a great one...
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby Zarven Kara » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:20 am

Hey Chris, interesting, mainly it will be used for drums, double bass and guitars. Perhaps versatile for different vocal applications but definitely versatile elsewhere don't you think? I'm pretty sure it's not going to suck on guitars either or brass. What else would you recommend?

cheers
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby Text_Edifice » Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:24 pm

I dunno - for those applications I reckon you could get 3-4 really great mics that would equal or outperform a u47 fet for 5k. They won't have the neumann badge though.

I really like all my Gefell mics and I have a bottle with an M15 capsule that ended my search for a U47 type mic.

There's a UM57 on ebay right now in Aus for <$3k and a pair of Gefell UM70s for <$4k. They'll probably hold their value ok and the UM70s do sound a little bit magical in my experience, as well as being very versatile.

I also really like MV692s with M93 caps for cello / double bass / darker overheads and if you can find M70 and M94 heads you'll have a set of very good options for most acoustic instrument.

There's also a bundle of new options that are also great.
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby walding » Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:25 pm

The Tasmanian wrote:I have never heard a great 47 fet - always been underwhelmed.
I would never choose one for vocal recording.
For 4-5k, I think is there are much better sounding / more versatile mics around for that sort of money.
But maybe I've never heard a great one...



I have to agree with this, although they make excellent bass amp mics..
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby The Tasmanian » Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:33 pm

I really think there are SO many more versatile mics for around $5k
If it were my choice I would look into:
AKG 414 with brass capsule
David Bock’s mics (iFet - or 251)
Gefell mics
Flea microphones
Lucas CS4 (my number 1 choice) - or Lucas CS1

Not so sure about the BeezNeez - people seem to love them - but then I see them putting them up for sale...

Depends on if you want to record with a great versatile mic - or make an investment.
A Neumann is a solid investment.
I always lean towards investing in the versatility of sounds I can record - I don’t care for resale investments, or impressing clients with brands. Its always about the work for me.

Edit:
As Dave has pointed out - a pair of UM70's for 4k would be a great versatile setup.
Stereo drums & upright bass: 1 for fingers / 1 for sound hole / brass etc.
They actually sound really good on vocals - just about anything you throw at them - my kinda mic's
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby Chinagraf » Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:27 pm

We had a UM70 with m7 capsule at the previous studio, it was really nice on outer kick duties and a bunch of other things, plus you get multiple patterns. A pair of those would be pretty cool.
Having said that, we also had a fet 47 which I really liked on acoustic guitar and seemed to really suit my voice as well.
There's a um57 on the bay right now, in Sydney.
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby gregwalker » Sun May 01, 2016 9:20 am

Yeah I wouldn't shell out for an overpriced vintage Neumann now. I'd highly recommend the Soyuz - 17 model. It's not a 47 or 67 clone but it is a stellar valve mic and has the magic proximity effect that Rick mentions (unlike every clone U47 I've ever heard). Super clean and super vibey at the same time and works on an amazingly wide range of sources.
Best mic I've ever had by a mile!
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby Text_Edifice » Sun May 01, 2016 12:46 pm

Russian mic wise I'd also recommend an AEG tube mic - they are great, inexpensive and have their own (Lomo-influenced) thing going on.
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Re: u47 comparison

Postby rick » Mon May 02, 2016 9:30 am

If money was no object and the choice was made on percentage of instruments i used the mic on the two u47 fets are the most used mics at my place right now
Then coles 4038 then u47 tube then u57 then kn100
So i would happily have 4 more u 47 fet
But money is always big problem
So we move the u47fets around all day
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