Turtlerock Forum

Anyone have a nice old one of these they don't want. I'd like to put one in my Fender tweed deluxe 5E3 that currently has 2 12AX7 in it. I'd like to tone it down a bit.

Let me know and how much or where to look.

Thanks

I've got a few pulls and possibly some NOS ones kicking around, I'll have a look later,,

Great. Thanks.

Ok I've only found one (I must have more though)

Jan Phillips probably 80's mil spec in box...

No idea what it's worth so make me a reasonable offer I guess

I dunno, no idea. How's $50. Is it NOS?

tunetown wrote:I dunno, no idea. How's $50. Is it NOS?

neither do I, so hows $30 sound

I'll take it over to the studio and test her out tonight.

Cool. Thanks.

and works ah those Mil sec tubes

Pm your address etc

Cheers

Pm sent.

Thanks for your effort.

As a pertinent aside , I don't know where most of you get your tubes from but there's an American fella who goes under the name of Bowie on the forums who I have had dealings with recently to procure a top tube for my MG CMV 563.
He has been terrific and a delivery time of 8 - 10 days to Alice Springs is roughly on par or better than some Australian service.
The NOS Tele he sourced wasn't the sound I was after so he took it back and has now sourced and tested a 1958 Amperex which he's freighting on his own dime.

A very cool man to deal with.

Christian Whitmore
proaudiotubes@aol.com

Cheers, Ross

Ross Muir
Alice Springs

I've also bought from Christian and can verify he's great to deal with.

Thanks. I'll save his email address for future.

As a further aside, can someone with more intelligence than me explain why valves sound different. If they are of the same value and biased correctly I assume they should sound the same. I understand the noise and microphonic issues but isn't a circuit a circuit?

I bought some tubes from him to findthe right one for one of mics. It was a fun experiment now i have 5 x of these tubes from him that i dont use after finding the right one.

I too would assume that if two valves are within spec, they should sound the same. Some people think different bits of wire sound different ($1000 interconnects, magic power cables, wooden volume knobs anyone?), I reckon much of the perceived difference is detected because they expect there to be a difference, and I believe if it can't be measured, it doesn't exist.

tunetown wrote:As a further aside, can someone with more intelligence than me explain why valves sound different. If they are of the same value and biased correctly I assume they should sound the same. I understand the noise and microphonic issues but isn't a circuit a circuit?

Kurt wrote:I too would assume that if two valves are within spec, they should sound the same. Some people think different bits of wire sound different ($1000 interconnects, magic power cables, wooden volume knobs anyone?), I reckon much of the perceived difference is detected because they expect there to be a difference, and I believe if it can't be measured, it doesn't exist.

tunetown wrote:As a further aside, can someone with more intelligence than me explain why valves sound different. If they are of the same value and biased correctly I assume they should sound the same. I understand the noise and microphonic issues but isn't a circuit a circuit?

well, first define the spec and tolerances....


if you have ever changed tubes in a guitar amp, you can hear differences...

That's why I've always hated changing tubes in my valve guitar amps.......and for my Rex, it was because the valve wasn't in spec that it sounded great! Go figure.?

tunetown wrote:As a further aside, can someone with more intelligence than me explain why valves sound different. If they are of the same value and biased correctly I assume they should sound the same. I understand the noise and microphonic issues but isn't a circuit a circuit?

I'll endeavour to answer this in an easy way....(as it's 2:34am and I've done 5 gigs in a row)

It comes down to manufacturing process and components, tolerances and low noise..

Mil spec tubes were manufactured for the Military and were produced to a high standard.....

I've got an 1961 scarla amp made in Italy, point to point 3 tubes etc, I was using it as a testing amp for 12AX7's for a friend who had bought around 200k tubes in the 90's, we were grading them on sound quality and noise etc....

we Tried milspec Jan phillips, 60's Brimars and Mullards, RCA etc etc, they all had their sound, the Jan phillips were clean and would last a lifetime, the Brimars had a golden type sound, Mullards were mullards, for fun we threw in some modern russian and chinese ones and you could hear the difference straight away....

At the end my friend (who was grading them to sell OS) had a couple of used Telefunken black diamond 12AX7s which he put in just to see what they were like..... I am not joking when my Jaw hit the ground when I heard them and offered to buy them on the spot, he refused but a few years ago he sold them to me...

the Telefunken black diamond are considered the best 12AX7 ever made and having heard them and now owning them I can see why...

Why is this so, I guess it's where science meets art

Hi Gents, Thanks for the info.

Mark, the tube arrived safely. It's a 12AT7. Can it be used in the same circuit as the 12AY7? I'll do some research. Also, I noted the postage cost. I will transfer some extra to cover your costs. I never gave it a thought before.

Cheers

tunetown wrote:Hi Gents, Thanks for the info.

Mark, the tube arrived safely. It's a 12AT7. Can it be used in the same circuit as the 12AY7? I'll do some research. Also, I noted the postage cost. I will transfer some extra to cover your costs. I never gave it a thought before.

Cheers

Yep it can and I'm sorry about it.

From memory AX7's have the highest gain, then the T7's then U's

all are interchangeable because they are all twin triodes.

Ps if you are not happy I'll dig out a U for and change it, no problems

No worries, happy to try it out. I found this on the internet.

V1 preamp tubes for more or less preamp gain.

If you want more preamp gain and a wilder and more distorted tone you can easily replace the V1 12AY7 tube for a tube with a higher voltage gain factor. The purpose of the V1 preamp tube is to amplify the weak guitar signal once it has entered the amp. A more powerful tube in this position will make the amp break up more at earlier volume settings. On maximum volume you will have lots more distortion than you had before. Likewise, you will get less preamp gain with tubes with less voltage gain factor.
◾12AX7 = 100
◾5751 = 70
◾12AT7 = 60
◾12AY7 = 45
◾12AV7 = 41
◾12AU7 = 19

Driver tubes with high current output, such as the 12AT7 and 12AU7, are not very well intended as V1 preamp tubes since they will be biased very cold. However, it is you, the guitar player and musician, that decide whether a tube works out well in a certain position or not. If you like the tone of a different tube in the preamp V1 slot for your music style, then that’s every reason you need to justify it.

Here's the link http://fenderguru.com/amps/deluxe-5e3/

I'd still like to get the 12AY7 if you have one. Since it was the original circuit but I'm interested to hear the differences. You learn something everyday.

Thanks again.

Djembe wrote:I've also bought from Christian and can verify he's great to deal with.

reddirt wrote:As a pertinent aside , I don't know where most of you get your tubes from but there's an American fella who goes under the name of Bowie on the forums who I have had dealings with recently to procure a top tube for my MG CMV 563.
He has been terrific and a delivery time of 8 - 10 days to Alice Springs is roughly on par or better than some Australian service.
The NOS Tele he sourced wasn't the sound I was after so he took it back and has now sourced and tested a 1958 Amperex which he's freighting on his own dime.

A very cool man to deal with.

Christian Whitmore
proaudiotubes@aol.com

Cheers, Ross

Ross Muir
Alice Springs

Great contact. I ordered a few from him. A wealth of knowledge and great correspondence. Thanks again for the heads up.