Limiters anyone?

[heathen]

Was thinking of adding a nice limiter to my stereo signal chain,does any have any recomendations.I have read great reviews on the Pendulum es8 and the chandler tg1 also Pendulum are releasing a solid state unit. Any opinins on these 3 would be appreciated and any other nice ones,my budget is around 4000 - 5000 grand,less would be good though,but I know I'll have to fork out. Thanks.

[JustinS]

I haven't used the Pendulum, but I have used the Chandler. It is a cool box, but with a very specific sound / tone to the signal path and the compression... One of those boxes that sometimes is very cool, but sometimes not. It does have a rather addictive sound when it works with the material, and encourages you to pile on the compression! They have slightly weird gain structuring on them also... with the older ones you have to bury they input (they call it hold) knobs way, way down the bottom of their path if you have any kind of reasonable imput levels - making it kinda hard to get exact input levels on stereo source material. The original EMI's I believe had to have adaptors to interface with the +4 outside world... on the newer Chandlers I believe they changed the taper on the input pots so you have better resolution down the bottom end. I'd kinda rate this one more as a tracking / individual sound source in a mix comp rather than a 2 bus...

So what kinda stuff do you do most of??

Justin.

[davemc]

I have a ES-8 and love it.
Its not super colored for a valve comp, more clean and hifi to me.

What are you looking for it to do.
I have used mine for everything since I have had it. Its sits on 2buss for mixing and I use it on overheads and vocals for tracking.

Are you looking for a more brickwall limiter like a outboard L1?
Maybe the new box might do that.

If you were local to Melbourne you could have a play.
Maybe also look at the cranesong as well.
Or a Vari mu if you want that color.

[heathen]

Cheers guys,thanks.Dave that was the info I was after,I mainly would use it on the stereo buss if needed,but also for tracking certain things. I'm mainly recording and mixing hip hop at the moment but I'll do anything really,so I need a unit I can use most of the time if need be.I was looking at the Chandler tg1 but maybe it's a little restrictive in use. Thanks for the comments,if anyone else can suggest any other nice reasonablely clean sounding limiters please post your thoughts. Thanks.

[Chris H]

The API 2500 gets the thumbs up from many who post on PSW.
Here is their blurb :
[Quote API]
"The API 2500 is a versatile stereo bus compressor that allows adjustment of sonic qualities that can alter the punch and tone of the stereo mix. The 19" rack mountable unit features ATI's patented "thrust" circuit for a chest-hitting, punchy bottom end. With its dual channel design, the API 2500 is set up for stereo compression, but can also be used as two separate units via a single compression setting. The 2500 boasts a range of parameters that make it incredibly musical.

API pushes the envelope of flexibility further with selectable "old" or "new" compression. The old style uses the feedback type of compression found in the API 525, 1176 and Fairchild. The new style uses a feed forward type, similar to other popular compressors.


The output stage features API's auto-makeup gain button, permitting the user to vary the threshold or ratio while automatically maintaining a constant output level. Fidelity is ensured with an all-discrete, fully balanced design, and two front panel VU meters show input, output, and gain reduction levels."
http://www.apiaudio.com/2500.html
Their Aust dealers are Legacy Audio.
Legacy's listed price is $4499 AU.

Marquette Audio Lab's price is $2995 US ($3978 AU)
If i was in the markert for a stereo bus comp it would be at the top of my list along with the Al Smart C1.
Mark what's your thinking on the Al Smart stuff?

[mark rachelle]

if you are doing hip hop you want something that fattens/tightens drums

are you after vibe/tone or sheer level

level you'll need an L1 2 3
but that will negate drum vibe/tone

you'll need to get a high end compressor that offers a great slew rate

i'd stay clear of the vari mu
for me its just not the sound of hip hop

also unless the attack/release times are perfectly set for the tempo of your track you will want variable attack release times and not fixed points.

that way you have a much better chance of getting the track to jump up and down in time

[davemc]

Also maybe look at the Smart C1 or C2 as well.
I know there are a lot of stuff out there it all comes down to personal taste.

[heathen]

Thanks guys,the API I will defineately consider,the vari mu I would absolutely love to own but the price may be a bit over my range and they are rare to find second hand but I will look.I own an al smart c2 already which is superb,I'm very happy with that unit and am now after a little colour for my signal chain,though still reasonably clean sounding. Actually a good friend of mine is getting an api soon,I'll have to swap him something for a few weeks for a test drive.
Mark I toally agree too,thats my only gripe with the C2 are the fixed positions on attack and release in which a few times an in between setting would have been nice,but I bought it for accuracy,it's so easy to work with when busy. Anyway thanks again for all your responses.

[wez]

wouldn't it be a relatively easy mod to change those fixed attack/release times on the C2? maybe even get the man himself to do a custom job, i don't know... or just roll your own!

re: the mu... why do you think it is that you don't see many on the used market?? mark's well made points notwithstanding.

be a bit careful about "forum hype" - for example, there are as many posts bagging the API as there are hyping it up (one trick pony, etc etc blah blah). i know it's hard to audition everything before buying in our little backwater though, just take things with a grain of salt.

[rob]

interesting point about continuously variable attack and release. I'm in the midst of R+D on a stereo compressor and wondering about this myself. What is the consensus? Would you guys prefer switched or continuous. If switched would more postions than say offered by the AL Smart or SSL type compressors be good, or just continuous pots?

Rob

[mark rachelle]

with the ssl comp i think that they got it pretty well on the money for times that work with recorded music except for modern electronic stuff (which didn't exist when they designed it)

the style of compressor that i feel works for more modern sounding music is the neve ring modulated designs

neve, amek 9098 + dmcl , focusrite red/blue
the faster cleaner designs work better for more modern music because its all about preserving the drum transients (remember they are already samples/loops/replacements. (by faster i do not mean attack times)

other designs seem to screw with the bottom end to much for modern electronic forms.
and this is my main criticism of the manley vari mu which is an
awesome compressor, but i have never had any luck with it on modern digital stuff.
totally changes the bottom end IMO and its often its way or the hi-way

its not that i don't like the older stuff,
its just heathen focuses mainly on hip hop and my advise is what ive found in that and similar styles.

rob is your compressor design vintage or are you going down the digital road for attack/release control.
is it for mixing or tracking? or mastering?

how about putting in a side chain function with stepped gain pots to adjust blends.

[heathen]

It's a good question,I'm not bagging the c2 at all I adore it. Why not have both variable and presets on a comp A few extra pots and a couple of switches would make it a pretty awesome comp ,like swiss army knife,if it had similar specs to an ssl type comp.
It is pretty hard to test gear in Australia thats why I post here, to get some good responses from people who are using the gear.The info in this forum is top notch,once the posts build up it will be an invaluable resource for audio. Everyone is helpfull too, my last 2 purchases have been made through contacts in here.
Some of the other forums on the net are loaded with misinformation,and others have no information. In one forum I won't name even asking how to achieve good final rms and peak levels will have you whipped and yelled at and then 20 posts will be from hawkers trying to sell thier services.
Anyway it's sunday and I've gotta go set up a mates midi for the arvo,should take 10 mins but........we'll see.
Good luck with the comp too Rob,I'll borrow and test 1 anytime hehe.
Cheers.

[davemc]

Thats one thing I like about the ES-8. You have presets and also manual control. Your choice..
I agree about the Mu the few times I have used one.. The bottom end is a little mushy when you push it more. Supposed to be a new mod for this..
With my Drawmer 1969 I find the top end rolls off a bit, although the big switch (side chain) is cool for the bottom end. My Neve 2254's suffer from preset attack and release. so works or does not work, Hence why I brought the Pendulum ES-8.
I wanted something that imparted some color although did not loose clarity or size. If anything I find it pushes the mids out a little which is fine.. As I said I mix through it.
Its personally preferance. A lot of freelancers I love the 1969. Although for me personally its something I think about selling.

[rob]

I'm tossing up alot of design concepts at the moment.
The grand plan is to throw all the eggs in one basket. Dual mono or stereo, MS or normal stereo compression. Sidechain filter ( to stop the bottom end pushing the GR too much ). Double sidechain controls for dual slope GR. Harmonic generation for "tone".

but will it work?

Rob

[wez]

keep talking rob ;-)

[Chinagraf]

Hey Rob,
please put a pot in to blend the compressed output with the dry signal.
Please.
Thanks

China

[Chris H]

Hey Rob,
please put a pot in to blend the compressed output with the dry signal.
Please.
Thanks

China

I have a pair of Altec comp/limiter's that have this feature.Quite handy insome applications but not high end. Has two inputs that can be blended as well. I often use it on bass di and mic if i'm going to my otari 8 track.

[Chinagraf]

Is that the older altec stuff - the green gear? I love the look of those pieces. I'm always keping an eye out for one but I only see them in the states and it would cost a bit to ship them. Nice.

[rob]

the R+D has started!...and going well
A blend control is definitely in the equation. As is Mid / Side compression with a re-mix facility

[Chris H]

Is that the older altec stuff - the green gear? I love the look of those pieces. I'm always keping an eye out for one but I only see them in the states and it would cost a bit to ship them. Nice.

Thats the ones. Some are tube,some are discreet transistor.I have the 1612 A and its transistor, fairly basic and not versitile.It works as a brick wall limiter and adjusts the threshold by how much gain you put in. Joe Camaleri is a big fan of this gear and has a swag of it at his Woodstock Studios.

[rick]

rob while you are at it
put a eq section or buttun in it that restores all the really high 18k- 27k stuff.
i wish all my limiters did that.

[Chris H]

rob while you are at it
put a eq section or buttun in it that restores all the really high 18k- 27k stuff.
i wish all my limiters did that.

Sounds like you will come up with something like the Avalon 747 ?

[rob]

I hope not :)