Guess what?New Apogee trouble

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Guess what?New Apogee trouble

Postby heathen » Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:36 pm

Ok I got the new rosetta 200.This a continuation of my previous post on the PSX100se dying.I got the new unit all hooked up,I'm very impressed mind you it sounds great,I think a slight improvment in midrange and over all clarity through the spectrum.
Anyway after screwing around with it and getting to know all the settings,calibration and such I'm finally happy. Then I'm reading the instructions on doing a factory preset reboot and I thought good idea after playing around."Press and hold sample rate while powering up"easy,ummm nothing happens,though power led is illuminated.Unplug blah blah plug back in scratch head read instructions,check apogee website ok no reference to this,ok I call the dealer and get "duh what the F#&$ have you done to this one". I told him what I did with the reset and he goes "duh must of dropped its rom duh,er I've never had to do this duh" (does he use them?)I said it's a basic function that should be there. I thought here we go,I said I'd see him soon,phone call ends.
Anyway I read the instructions again and there are 2 power on settings (in case you don't know),why? I hav'nt a clue. But you can change a jumper (p3) like on a hard drive ,it makes it so the apogee powers on as soon as it see's AC power,anyway after considering this as a short term fix,I did it and what do you know it works just fine. great unit but with a dodgy power switch which only worked once.Also after the jumper change the instructions say the power switch still works (which it does"scratch head again")but as soon as it sees power upon switching on your mains power it will power up.
Ok to finish up,the power switch works in jumper mode 2 but not in jumper mode 1 as I retested it. It's not even the dealers fault at all this time it can't be,so why does he treat me as if it's mine,what a jerk. Even though a fair jerk,still a jerk. So I phoned him again to tell him it's only a faulty switch in power mode 1,and he did'nt want to chat again yesterday. I'll call him tomorrow to cheer him up. I'll be expecting this fixed or swapped especially on a 2 hour old unit.But I may wait a week or so to see if anything else in it dies and if it does I'm going to buy something else.
The unit sounds teriffic and there are no other probs with it,great clock in it very fast to lock,almost instantaneous. Anyway just thought I'd let everyone know of potential pitfalls with these units,though no big deal really.
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Postby Martinez » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:25 pm

don't wait dude!

these things don't fix themselves.

go on the mercenary audio website and have a look at how many apogee products are on the special or second hand page.

seems to me something is a foot with this brand.

look for something else.
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Postby Adam Dempsey » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:36 pm

Again goes to show there's more to those things than brand hype...

Our (non-apogee) convertors were tested, sent back with some spec recommendations and they're returned improved & bug fixed. The only major fault was with an LCD backlight which required front panel replacement.
Look beyond the "name"...

(I personally avoid US stuff where I can anyway, as a matter of principle - seriously.)
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Postby heathen » Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:54 pm

Yeah I called them again and they said bring it straight back for a swap,they must think I'm bloody mad and torturing the units or something. I'll give em 1 more go because I actually like the sound of them,but thats it only 1 more time.$100 in cab fares later,actually $160 after tomorrow as well. Lucky I've got a sense of humour. As long as the unit pays for itself eventually,that's business.
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Postby Damien » Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:09 pm

i have just had the displeasure of returning one of these to its proper owner

http://www.uaudio.com/products/digital/2192/index.html

i LOVED this thing.

now i have only been using the converters in the mackie d8b, pt mix and a 001 to compare it with. so for me the change was really noticable.

i also used his apogee rosetta800 (8 channels) it worked much better than than our normal ones, but i loved the tone of the 2192..

adam what are your converters?

has anyone else used the 2192? before i spend the money on one of these, is there any others i should listen to?
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Postby heathen » Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:24 am

Ok yer all gonna think im mad but the mystery power button has healed itself.I've seen this before with new gear though rarely,one of the contacts must have been stuck or something. Anyway I'll put this subject to rest.Hopefully.
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Postby Adam Dempsey » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:03 am

Damien wrote:i have just had the displeasure of returning one of these to its proper owner

http://www.uaudio.com/products/digital/2192/index.html

i LOVED this thing.

now i have only been using the converters in the mackie d8b, pt mix and a 001 to compare it with. so for me the change was really noticable.

i also used his apogee rosetta800 (8 channels) it worked much better than than our normal ones, but i loved the tone of the 2192..

adam what are your converters?

has anyone else used the 2192? before i spend the money on one of these, is there any others i should listen to?


Digital Audio Denmark 2408 (8ch) and 2402 (2 ch)
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Postby Kris » Thu Oct 27, 2005 11:44 am

I was thinking about buying an AD8000 by Apogee. There's always a few on the secondhand market. I'm not at all fussed that it only goes to 48k. That way I can add 8 more channels to my rig via light pipe and have a total of 18 i/o's. Does anyone know if the AD8000 is troublesome?
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Postby ottowr » Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:57 pm

We've got 3 x AD8000 units. Never had any trouble at all with them, but setup is something that needs to be learned (maybe it's just me).
My listening test using live grand piano compared it to 192IO, and I felt that the AD8000 at 48k was at least as good as the 192IO at 96kHz.
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Postby heathen » Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:12 pm

I've a friend with an ad8000 as well he loves it,and has had no trouble with his either,he bought it second hand for a good price.
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Postby rick » Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:22 pm

i have had trouble with apogee converters, prism converters, sony converters, benchmark converters db technologies,studer and waves converters(and probably a few more i have forgotten about to stop the stress ( tc and maratnz come to mind)

dont blame just apogee ,
nobody makes enough of these things to get them right in every market

australia is particularly troublesome because we have so much ac power coming out of our powerpoints and the yanks cannot really test for it.
i hate buying these things....
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Postby heathen » Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:14 pm

Hmmmm interesting point about the AC power Rick,and also all the converters you have been through,farout bet you have a few spares now. Wish they would build them tougher.
Today I was chatting to a mate about how sensitive converters can be,as this new rosetta 200 does not like any heat at all, so I guess all my mixdowns will have to be with the window shut and air con on. But I was thinking I wish someone would make converters here for Aussie conditions,something you could leave in the sun in our 60 degree summers,handle being covered in dust and also handle humidity and have no troubles. My cheapo motu 828 handles extreme heat(but has terrible converters),heat does not bother my computer or mackie hdr,so I don't know why they can't do the same for other converter units.
I've been testing pc's with heatsinks on the northbridge instead of those rotten noisy little fans,they work great,this pc im using now I tested 16 hours a day last summer with a heat sink on it trying to make it die from heat and it runs perfectly still. This year I'm going to test one on the main processor,though I think I know what will most likely happen.
I may just glue these heat sinks all over the apogee,they are only 5 bucks each so I'd only need 20 or so ,haha.
Even better would be a grill on the bottom instead of a plate so hot air can be carried away by convection out the side grills and cool drawn in from below,as it is there are only grills on the side and this convection effect would be greatly reduced.I noticed the avalon ad 2055 has large grills top and bottom to maximise this effect.
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Postby chris p » Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:30 am

Actually, Heathen, the Motu 828 (mk1) uses a Cirrus Logic converter and is quite acceptable, if somewhat dated by current specs. The Motu's sonic downfall is its use of cheap & nasty opamps (NJM4580s) in its amplifier stages (they're not really designed to be audio op amps), and a noisyish power supply.

Matt from Black Lion Audio in the US (http://blacklionaudio.com/828.htm) has done some work on this, and has come up with a mod to lower THD and noisefloor, raise circuit bandwidth, and increase overall tonal and transient response. Unfortunately, it costs as much to ship your unit to and from the US as it does to have the mod performed.

However, Matt has kindly offered to send me the parts list and instructions for the mod. It involves replacing some surface mount devices, though - does anyone know anything about this? Rob in SA, Howard at StuSol, Joe in Brissie? Once I get the list, I may be looking for a quote to do the mod for me. Mind you, if its just having a nice desolder pump, that I can do myself - its not as though you need to worry about cooking the component as you're removing it anyway.

Heathen, if you want to play at the same time, let me know.
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Postby heathen » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:11 am

Hey chris that sounds pretty cool ,mines an 828 mk2 though with firewire so do you know if the mod could apply there as well?
It is a versatile unit,the only thing I use it for now is for its toslink i/o to my apogee,but if the audio quality could be improved that would be really cool as they are a top unit option wise everything is already there without having to buy options. I would use it more if it sounded better.
Hmmmm actually it could have just been the monitor outs from the thing being crude as well,because i've listened back to stuff mixed down into the motu back trough the Apogee and yeah your quite right they are not too bad sounding,just limited sounding bandwidth and a bit noisy as you said.
Where I noticed I was having trouble was getting bass sounding right,it was taking ages and I was'nt happy,I knew it was'nt me,but as soon as the Apogee was plugged in I havnt had any trouble with bass at all.
A mod hmmmm Ok I'm keen to play,I'm a rotten solderer though hehe. There is a company in Dee Why who may be able to do this,he's a friend of a friend. They r called Phase engineering and the guys name is Sacha. I could call them and ask. They do a lot of work for the place my mate works at Dynamic music, who import all sorts of stuff like yorkville speakers and all sorts of cheapo guitar stuff and mixers that die all the time.
They would do surface mount stuff regularly. They charge heaps $88 an hour but im sure they are good. I'm sure it would only take a couple of hours.They do all sorts of mixers too,gotta get him to servece my o2r as well.
So yeah I'm keen to try,It may really be worth it as the units are very cheap second hand,so if it totally died I wouldnt give much more than a shrug of my shoulders.Though if it worked I'd be very happy indeed,as I love the routing on them. Just so versatile. Very interesting.
Cheers Chris
Last edited by heathen on Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Howard Jones » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:12 am

Desoldering and resoldering surface mount devices is not beyond the capability of a skilful amateur. It's hard for me to advise about this because I have found that I overestimate the ability of some and overestimate the ability of others. What is for sure is that, if you do not approach such work with the requisite skill, you can do some major damage.
Having said that, surface mount op amps are easier than other parts because they have only a few legs with a wide pitch spacing. So, in themselves, they may be easier to get off and put on - you still have to be very wary when other components are mounted very close to the op amp in question. You can dislodge a part you didn't mean to. You can also cook the circuit board and surrounding parts if you are clumsy.

BTW, Sony Music Studios in Sydney is closing down in December.
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Postby Chris H » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:25 am

Quote
"BTW, Sony Music Studios in Sydney is closing down in December."

(Just a quiet little thread hijack) Holy smoke, just as well i didn't persue a job there a while ago.
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Postby Kris » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:25 am

Hmmm.... phase engineering. How long do you want to wait?
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Postby heathen » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:26 am

Cheers Howard.I would'nt attempt this noway,I can't solder much more than mic cables,I had brain surgery a few years back,can't use the fingers on my right hand,bit of a bummer for doing repairs myself.
Could you recommend a Sydney sider who would do this for some $$$?
Sony studios closing hmmm better save some moolah if they are having a closing down sale.
Do you know why they are closing?Would be expensive to run if income was down.
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Postby heathen » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:27 am

Hahaha Kris, I think your right there.
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Postby heathen » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:31 am

Hey just a thought,remember when Rick was talking about the Nigerian computers,hmmmm how about Nigerian converters anyone? :D
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Postby Howard Jones » Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:09 pm

Hi Heathen & Everyone,

We are geared up to do surface mount rework and can perform these mods if you wish.

There will be a lot to say about the closure of Sony Music Studios. For now, suffice to say that they were profitable and that the decision has been taken for other reasons. It is a tragedy for them and for the whole industry. Those rooms, although being underused and under-appreciated, were so very, very good.

Howard.
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Postby Martinez » Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:21 pm

I hope someone else can take posession of the premise then,

I hate to see good space go to waste!
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Sony Music Studios

Postby Howard Jones » Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:31 pm

The studios - at least, Studio A, are being closed and gutted. There will be no-one else using the premises.
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Postby Martinez » Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:55 pm

thats a real shame.
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SMS closing

Postby Howard Jones » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:06 pm

I can't tell you how sad I feel about it. Many years had been spent making major and minor improvements to the facility. Jack Medcalf had redesigned each room in turn and had achieved significant sonic gains in each. The acoustics were fabulous and the ambient noise level low enough for you to hear the blood pumping in your ears - a major result in itself.

All signal paths in the place were, essentially, digital. Together with other changes, this had lowered the inherent noise floor of the facility substantially. SMS offered the best in analogue and digital gear, great monitoring, good ambience.

Quite a few people will likely lose their regular workflow as a result of this. It's also a place where I have spent quite a bit of my energies - kinda for nothing as it now seems.
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Postby heathen » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:28 pm

Another blow to the industry,sorry to hear about this.Especially after so much hard work on the facility.
Cheers Howard too about the surface mount stuff,I'll wait for chris to get back to me about the mod and we check it out,will be interesting to see.
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Postby Martinez » Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:27 pm

so whats the reason for it closing down then?

and what will happen to the acts that would normaly record there?
they will have to go else where to record,

thats not necessarily a bad thing is it?

more for us.........so to speak?
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Postby Howard Jones » Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:38 pm

It's a very bad thing in the larger picture of where the industry is at but a good thing, as you say, for other studios who could reasonably expect their share of the pie to grow a bit as a result.

Howard.
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Postby Martinez » Fri Oct 28, 2005 7:45 pm

they won't go os to record insted will they?

the bigger acts I mean.
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Postby Howard Jones » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:44 pm

How long is a piece of string?
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