Retro 176 and Sta

[Ben M]

I'm thinking of getting one of these soon. I'll have the chance in a couple of weeks to play around with them before I buy... but has anyone used either of these and care to comment?

Thanks in advance

Ben

[HA_DA_JA]

I am pretty sure Angus has one of those. Just PM him. His user name is anguswoodhead

[Chris H]

The Tasmaniac has the Sta.....

[musikwerks]

i have used both side by side.

I would go the STA over the 176 any day. The 176 can add a bit too much grit for my liking when pushed hard. The STA can compress for days and you won't even know it. It's a thing of beauty. If I had the $$$, time, work etc I would buy one in a heartbeat.

But then I'd have to argue with Rick as to whether you prounounce it STAR or STAY.

[Chris H]

i have used both side by side.

I would go the STA over the 176 any day. The 176 can add a bit too much grit for my liking when pushed hard. The STA can compress for days and you won't even know it. It's a thing of beauty. If I had the $$$, time, work etc I would buy one in a heartbeat.

But then I'd have to argue with Rick as to whether you prounounce it STAR or STAY.

fwiw...... i vote STAY. I heard an older ABC tech pronounce it STAY so that carries a bit of weight in my book.

[musikwerks]

Dammit. That's what Rick said too.

[anguswoodhead]

Yeah - I've got a 176.
Only used it as a tracking comp so far and pretty gently - just a few db on low ratios.
However I am going to start using it on lead vocal when I mix once I get the patch cables I need.
(Anyone want to sell me 2 x TT bantam to TRS 6.5mm jack - 1.5m or longer at the right price - LOL.)
What I've heard is that it can be smooth and subtle or gritty and dominant depending on your settings.
I felt it had better controls than the STA and the UA 175 / 176 being the father of the 1176 swayed me, as I quite like the old 1176.
I would like a STA as well of course but not a priority right now.
Talk to Mick W and he may be able to let you have a test run of both to see which one you prefer.
I know he Distributes the 176 and I think he does the STA also.

[The Tasmanian]

The Sta rocks
we have 2 original Sta Levels at BJB and they are incredible on just about anything.
The re-issue is so close in sound - I have one myself and it's much loved.
You can also do a lot more compression without hearing it pump than the 176.
And you can also put 6386's into the reissue if you can find one.
My fave valve comp short of an AWA - and sometimes chosen over the AWA for lead vocals.
Also killer on Bass /Gtrs /Synths /Drums - not a one trick pony.

[capitalK]

i flirted with a STA shortly before buying my SSL console and totally blowing the gear budget.
tracked a kick drum thru it and bass guit too.
i still dream about it. just ome of "those" peuces of gear that seems to be an affective "make sound good now" switches.
i dont know how much of my enjoyment was a placebo effect, bucase it looks and feels military grade. felt more like i was opperating a tank rather than a compressor.
both warm and clear sounding.
never heard an original gates or the 176. i can only say the sta made me smile and i wanted to turn all its knobs clockwise! mmmmm.

[Ben M]

This is all great feedback guys. Thankyou.

I've used a Gates sta a couple of times before and I really like them so I was interested to hear such complimentary reviews from you guys giving the Retro reissue a great wrap. Also the versatility seems to be a bit better with the Retro Sta than the Gates and they've seemed to have brought it into the modern age without sacrificing the sound and function.
Interesting feedback on the 176 with "grit" and "pumping". It would seem that you'd need to play around with parameters a lot more to get to the desired settings whereas the Sta is turn it clockwise til you hit the sweet spot (much like the original).

Thanks again for your feedback on these units.

[Ben M]

I've been demoing the Retro Sta for a few days now.

WOW! Absolutely marvelous.

The other thing that is amazing me is the complete lack of noise. I had the input and output turn fully clockwise and ....well, where's the noise?

I think this one's going in the trophy room.

[waitup]

I think this one's going in the trophy room.

that... is going strait to the pool room!

[rick]

i got an original Sta level in a horse trade about 15-8 years ago from the states ( cost about $100 at the time ) ,
i didnt like it much because it has issues so i had it fixed up and retubed and rebuilt it was fine then..
but i only ever used it on backing vocals and sometimes bass which is was great for .

its interesting now that it resides at BJB and everybody loves it/them , i could not give it away at the time
and when it got stolen by Rob the junkie tech
after i found out i settled with the culprit for peanuts
which was fine because it cost me peanuts could never be bothered with the legals/dramas of it all - thats how much i missed it

it was not the hallow beast they are now i assure you

wow those things have risen in status and price over the years , except for the look i just dont get it with those things

different strokes i guess lets check ebay under "retro" in 5 years time

[anguswoodhead]

Interesting Rick - one man's trash.....

I love my 176 - maybe you shoulda' tried one of them out Ben.
Maybe it would go straight to the pool room also.

[The Tasmanian]

Thanks Rick for the history lesson - If I/we had known back then we would not have touched them - It would have been nice to hear about this at the time from you instead of 6 years later on a forum.
Anyway......... No wonder they sound bad ass
Nearly every engineer who mixes here uses them and loves them , also they have been recapped and get a good service every 18 months by Andrew Kay - so they always sound great, probably more to do with the big transformers. As soon as you plug them in they sound huge - and then to be able to get massive amounts of valve compression without pumping is crazy - I've had 35db of compression on things like Rhodes without pumping artifacts .
I stand by them - and after mixing with them for many years they never let me down.

[Ben M]

I’m familiar with the original Sta sound, which is what attracted me that way to start with. I've been on the search for the right one for a quite a while.

My thing about this is, rarely do you see a reissue hit its straps so well.

This thing is build like a tank, does lots of levelling with no pumping, adds fullness to the signal and no noisy old Gates spitting and spattering. It’s like a fresh start at an ol’ classic.

I had an option on a Gates Sta upgraded by Phil Moore recently but I couldn’t imagine it sounding any better than this one and on as many different sources.
I’m fully aware that the original Sta was build for transmitting full program but these are just a dream for putting varied signals in their place in a mix and holding them there.
I would buy a pair if I could afford it.

[rick]

yeah , everybody loves em , what can i do i must be wrong .. it happens

dont sweat on the history lesson chris , Rob was the greatest liar any of us ever met
we all got done over at some point i am assured in that
when pressed he told me he sold them to the usa
which i believed for a time ...
its old news i thought you knew ...oh well now you do , i meant no slight on you guys

but it was andrew kay fixed mine up the first time around
and i believe it was the first tube compresser he had ever touched as well (it was that long ago ),

i dunno about those gates meters ... you can get amazing amounts of limiting off them .
if i had one in my hands today first thing i would do was test that meter for accuracy , it defies explanation really ,
it would be funny if it was accurate
and it very well may be
somebody test one and tell us all

[The Tasmanian]

Also - we have 2 original LA2a's and i find most times we choose the Sta's in preference - again as the LA2a pumps at about 8 db of compression - although the LA2a's add a touch of air which is why they are great on vocals in the tracking stage - and then the Sta in the mix which then makes the vocal sound huge.
One thing I read a while ago was a interview with the mixer for those great Johhny Cash cover albums that he did before his death and that the Sta was the only compression used on his voice - if you have not heard these albums have a listen to how amazing the vocals sound - A desert island vocal sound for me.
And yes Rick - I think the old meters are a bit slow to show the real goings on - but the Retro's meter is a lot quicker and more responsive.
When Andrew Kay built my Voodoo Machines based partly on the Sta's compression design - we sourced accurate military metres - and I tell you on those machines I have had at least 35 db compression on a grand piano with no audible distortion on the harmonics in the sustain - http://people.aapt.net.au/~andrewkay/voodoomachine.html
On the Silverchair album recently we tried to distort the grand piano by smashing them through the compressors (voodoo's) - the more we pushed them the more they compressed and the warmer it all sounded! (using the 6386 valve allows more extreme compression than the TBar alternative 5749's)
For a really old design, the way these units deal with compression is better than most of the things of that era.
And I am sure the transformer is playing a role here in the bigness of the sound here.

[Linear]

I've got this theory on varimu compressors. well not really a theory, but maybe more an observation.

Firstly, there's no doubting that the compression they impart is program dependent. So like impedence, just sticking a 1khz tone into it and seeing how much gain reduction you get doesn't give you the real picture.

Also the ratio changes depending on gain reduction, but everyone already knows that. I think the real trick to varimu compressors is that I think it is transient related, and I think that when putting through 'music' as opposed to tones or individual instruments, you get differing levels of compression on different parts of the audio spectrum and different gain reduction on different transient parts.

That's why my Joe Meek SC2 (which I sold) was so weird. It clamped the audio, and would compress everything based on some peak level, so I never liked how it sounded. The compression always sounded harsher than the meter gave away. The Phoenix is the complement of this - The meters are going crazy, but if you shut your eyes you can't hear the compression.

Never used an STA level, but I'd like to try one out. I'd like to know if it really does do 35db of gain reduction though, the AWA and Phoenix meters only go to 20!

Chris

[The Tasmanian]

The Pheonix would be a much more versatile beast though - such a great reputation.