Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Let's talk about kits and mics, new and old. What are you using? What do you want? What's the difference?

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Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby The Tasmanian » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:54 am

Ive been using a D112 just inside the hole with great success for a long time, Ive been through various mics way inside facing the beater for a nice attack - but over the years found that I can get a better sound just inside the hole.
Always Coupled with various mics outside the skin - like D12's, U47Fet,UM70 and others.

Ive tried many times to like the Shure mics - but they always seem too scooped around 300(ish) - and I'd rather EQ it myself as each drum has its own different low end.

Ive done the doona/blanket/carpet/aircon duct tunnel thingy and found it only useful on rare occasions - even taking the heads off another kik and putting it against the kik to form a cannon bass drum - but generally it seems a waste of time unless the kit is played is really gentle and its a slow song.

What are you guys digging for a trusty set-up that seems to work most of the time ?
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby Kurt » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:37 am

I haven't really liked the D112 the couple of times I've tried them but they're the classic kick mic so I guess the way I set it up is wrong or something.

I use Audio-Technica ATM25s on kick, mostly because that's what I have and have been happy using them live for a long time. Having said that, I have borrowed Sennheiser E902s to record a few things and loved them. Also liked Audix D6 when I've come across them live, never recorded with one.
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby The Tasmanian » Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:45 am

Kurt - I find the D112 always needs a bit of EQ (varying scoop from 250-400hz)- but when Its added it always seems to work.
I have tried the audio technica and its been OK - but not great.
Its funny how one person can get the opposite results to another.
I have not tried the Audix though
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby rick » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:39 am

i have heard enough good things about the audix to buy one and see what gives next time i am in the mood
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby Junction » Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:56 am

I have the most success with a Beyer M88 over a D12 inside the kick and then a U87 or any LDC outside, about 1 - 2m in front of the kick, the distance adjusted so that it is in phase with the M88 track.
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby GlennS » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:27 am

For a long time I've used a 421 with a lot of eq & I preferred that sound to mics that needed less eq. It presents the drum with the right amount of "character" without overly drawing attention to it - in other words the recorded bass drum just sounds like part of the kit.
But recently I've been using Audio Technica's AE2500. You need two mic pre's, but by balancing the condenser & dynamic elements you can virtually do away with eq, and it sounds great with a more solid bottom end than I could get with the 421.
I like to put the mic so the element is level or just outside the resonant head (assuming there is a hole) pointing at the beater. I usually don't have a specific outside or distant kick mic as the other mics around the kit do the job for me.
The D6 is ok. Kinda polished, tight sound, but a little bland for my tastes.
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby ChrisW » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:30 am

From a drummer, not an engineer......
I usually work with Peter Henderson (ex Emerick/Martin sidekick) and we always seem to end up with a D12.
We've also used a D112 occasionally, but find it a little more 'pre-eqed' in a modern way.
On the outside we use a Fet47 of some kind. I own a Lawson 47 clone which we sometimes use to good effect.
AS neither Peter or I like a very clicky bass drum, we always place the closest mic just next to the front head port, or just inside (3pm on the drum), and point the mic slightly in, but not at the pedal strike zone. The 47 is usually more centred on the front head, but back about a foot.
Just about every time I've recorded with any engineer, we end up with a kick tunnel. I don't think this is so much to fix the bass drum sound, as to limit the bass drum presence in the room mics, which can be thinner and trashy.
So it's focussed and fat bass drum, roomy (slightly trashier) snare and toms.
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby Barney Loveland » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:52 am

I've been using an Earthworks SR25 with their kik pad. Great no fuss. Worth a listen.

I have an Audix D6 but have varied opinions. As always one project I ended up being unimpressed at mix stage but that was probably more to do with the kit/tuning on the day. Live its worked well.

I'd be keen to try one the AE2500 one day.
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby Kurt » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:59 am

I mic just inside the hole, pointed straight at the beater for lots of attack. With the ATM25 I use pretty extreme eq live (desk eq and parametric insert) to get a highly processed modern metal sound but have never been able to replicate it at home. maybe overloading the eq is part of the sound that works in analogue but is horrible ITB..

For a mellower sound, or in a kick with a metal pad, I'll point the mic at the opposite side of the shell, parallel to the skins, a couple of inches inside the drum. Just as happy to have no front skin and much prefer it to an unholed front skin.
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby Jonathan Kristian » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:16 am

My go to set up lately has been a Heil PR40 inside pointing at the beater or there abouts and then a CAD M179 outside the kik between 10 - 40cm away depending on the kik. Generally no compression (or very little) and no eq. Loving the sound at the moment.

Have been finding more and more uses for the PR40. Really loving that mic, where ever i usually use a 57 im now using the PR40 with much better results.
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby Drumstruck » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:17 pm

AKG D11 works pretty well on smaller BDs (18") - works even better on floor toms and has a beautiful, warm sound on tenor sax - also is good on male vocals where you need a bit of bottom end boost. And they're not expensive (relatively).
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby Linear » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:25 pm

i'm a little obsessed with kick drum mics. here's what i've found works:

Jazz - D12e
Country - 421 or D112 or RE20
Old School Rock - M88 or Beta52
Metal - ATM25
Real drums over electronica - Beyer M380

If anything above doesn't work, I use an EV N/D868. Best all-round kick mic. Depending on the genre, I'll try the 868 with the above mics. To be honest the 868 wins most times.

Tuning and kick drum selection matter more, but the mic does influence the sound a fair bit. Personally I don't like clicky, but for certain genres (country and metal) it works.

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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby Drumstruck » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:41 pm

Linear wrote: Personally I don't like clicky, but for certain genres (country and metal) it works.

Chris


Funny thing that - 2 polar opposites in music styles but both tend to be very 2/4 ish - one on the "off" beat and one on the "on" beat. Now I've gotta write a country-metal song =))
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby Kurt » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:37 pm

Metallica beat you to it..

Drumstruck wrote:Now I've gotta write a country-metal song =))
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby Lee » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:56 am

I can't decide what my favourite kick mic is but I recently tried the ATM250 DE, which has dual diaphragms (dynamic and condenser). This was using a Pearl Masters maple kick angled down inside at the beater slightly off axis. This allowed me to boost the highs for the attack "slap" from the beater and blend the lows from the dynamic to create a sound. I guess its strength is its ability to have two different sounding mics as closely phase aligned as you can get inside a kick drum, which makes it versatile and convenient. I'm still deciding what I think about it but so far its not bad and thought I would mention it.


Here are the mic specs
http://www.audio-technica.com/cms/resou ... e_ss_e.pdf
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby Lee » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:07 am

By the way, keeping with the Metallica theme the kick on the song One was recorded using an RE20 just inside the big hole, which can be seen in a photo in the May 2011 edition of SOS.
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby danander11 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 8:45 am

I have three that I use... D112, Beta 52m and a D6.

I like the D6 best right now, just in the front head at about 4:30, pointing just to the side and just below hte impact point of the beater, (not a big fan of click unless the song needs it).

One I used to use a lot when playing was a PL/RE-20. And actually wouldn't mind having another one. I have 421's but have yet to use them on the kick..
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby stosostu » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:06 am

For live drums, rather than recording, I use either a Beyer M88 just inside the hole, pointing at the beater, or for a fuller bottom end, a Nady DM90 well inside the drum pointing half way between the beater and the edge.
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby graemeh » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:46 pm

Almost always use my trusty D12 inside or rarely a 421.
Outside a Neumann TLM103 for bottom end about a metre from the front skin, sometimes baffled off, depending on material... if all else fails there's always drum replacement, a dirty concept but sometimes necessary as an adjunct to the real kick(s)...
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby reddirt » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:22 pm

The jack of all trades 441 will work and to my ears is nicer than a 421; also a plus to the M88.
I use a 112 but it has a very distinct eq'd sound ; I use it because it has bottom end and doesn't wimp out.
God knows how people use 57s there but some well known ones have so what do I know?
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby Damien » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:48 pm

i go around in circles on this one.

i use M88 or D6 with a SM91 and Fet47 most of the time. one of those usually works for me. i track all 3 and use what i need.

i have just bought a heil PR40. this has replaced the M88 (the M88 blows up all the time anyway..) and the D6 for most of my work. the heil is the only one i take to live shows now..

I also used and loved the earthworks SR30hc.. i think ill be buying some of those next.. i used the SR30's as O/H's as well..
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Re: Lets talk about fave kick mic's and positions.

Postby spandex man » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:45 pm

D6 inside pointed at the beater into a Vintech x81 -> hemorrhaging Distressor
M88/D112/D12 side -> whatever

Last couple of session i did i used a D112 and a Beta52 inside pointed at the beater (two different kits that is). They both sounded fine, the D112 needed more EQ though.
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