Other than 57's on a Snare...

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Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Lee » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:14 pm

I thought I would get this conversation going. Does any one use anything else other then then a 57 top and bottom on a snare? :)
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby stosostu » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:16 pm

Yes and no........... I have an ancient SM56, which is like a 57 with a hinge to a stand mount. Very neat to tuck in a kit and the same response as a 57.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Ben M » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:21 pm

km84 on top all by itself is awesome.
But could be paired with 57 or 421 on bottom.(or another 84/85)

Also I don't mind a 414 on snare with a beyer 88 underneath.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby ChrisW » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:24 pm

Never use 57 underneath. Almost always use 57 on top.
Other well known substitutes are D19 (ala Emerick) and km84.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby graemeh » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:33 pm

Beyer m201n for top almost invariably. Sometimes for jazz or brushes a Sony ECM-30 omni lapel mic. Hardly ever use a bottom mic any more - for years I wasted too much hd space on useless tracks. I find the overheads perfect for retaining the snap on a snare.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby GlennS » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:41 pm

DPA 4011 is classy on snare, but I love it most when it's next to a 57.
If you have an Oktava MK219 try it. It's the mic I use most on top now.
If I do use a second mic, which is not all that often these days, it's usually an Oktava MC012 either on the bottom or on the hole on the side of the snare.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Lee » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:42 pm

The next time I record a snare that needs some body I will try a 414 as they tend to have a bump in the low mids, which should work well?
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby GlennS » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:45 pm

I used 414 on snare on a live jazz album once. I just listened to it again the other day & it still sounds pretty good to me.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Drumstruck » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:48 pm

Ddrum Pro trigger....... and the overheads :-?
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Chris H » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:58 pm

stosostu wrote:Yes and no........... I have an ancient SM56, which is like a 57 with a hinge to a stand mount. Very neat to tuck in a kit and the same response as a 57.


Aha! someone else with an SM56. I use one as well for snare and guit amp duties. I like it more than a 57 because it looks vintage so it must sound better!
I don't even own a 57! .......so common B-)
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Kurt » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:59 pm

I recently picked up one of the newer Audio Technica cheapies at Cash Convertors for $20 to use on snares at the pub (after a drummer smashed yet another 57) I like it better than a 57, bigger bottom bit still a nice crisp top. Also has a steel basket so can take a flogging from drummers!
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby ChrisW » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:09 pm

They say (whoever 'they' are) an Audix i5 is better than a 57.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby rick » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:56 pm

is it just wrong to post up tube km 56 on the top ( in card)
414 on the side and anything left over i can find on the bed ...
thought so
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Ben M » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:11 pm

rick wrote:is it just wrong to post up tube km 56 on the top ( in card)
414 on the side and anything left over i can find on the bed ...
thought so
I don't think so...but I'd say U47's top, side and bottom would be pushing it. :)
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby rick » Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:22 pm

oh i would if i could
actually i dont have a km 56 anymore and havent recorded a snare in a long time
so i better read up all the posts and learn what i can
umm what is this sm 57 you speak of ..?
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby seancook » Fri Jun 03, 2011 10:45 pm

big fan of the altec salt shaker 633a(not b) on snare
but varies wildly on the what condition the mic is in
mine is amazing, others I have used not so much, go figure

beyer m201 if the drummer cant help but beat his hats like they messed with his sister
but overall i've found it doesnt have the same snappy presence that i like in a 57

km 85 (in preference to an 84) 84 sounds too tubby to me, 85 sounds just right

sony c37a (if i can mic the snare from about a foot away, not as special as you would hope right on the skin

josephson e22s, sounds like a 57 with..... more

and sometimes that 57 just is what its asking for

prefer not to use a bottom snare mic, was using an 87 in fig8 between the kick beater and btm snare for a while,
kinda cool snappy sounding thing, player needs to be controlled otherwise the balance will be weird


that about covers it for me

except that if at all possible I would rather lower the overheads and get as much snare from them as possible,
love that
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Chris H » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:05 pm

While I will usually have my SM 56 on snare, the main snare sound is my overheads. I think I have got my best results using a pair of old AKG 451's. When relying on close mics the snare isn't bright enough but the combo of OH with close mic and room mics blended in is my snare sound. Other mic favorites for Oh are my TnC ACM 4 double ribbon mics. Very meaty and going through the Avalon747 Wirh the32k eq boosted gives a nice bit of silky high to the cymbals
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby adamcal » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:14 pm

Like a 57, but better in every case:
transformerless 57 (smoother)
sm56 (easier to fit, less spill)
Audix i5 (brighter, less spill)
Telefunken M80 (brighter, fatter and all round better)
sm7 (smoother but often too big)

Not Like a 57 but also great:
km84, km140, km56, MD441, Beyer m88, m69 and 201, AKG C414, RE20.

underneath I usually use a km84, km85 or C414, I always track it, but dont always use it.

some people bring in a heil mic that sounds pretty good, but I only own the above mics.

one of my clients always brings a pair of Joesphson e22s mics, haven't used them on snare yet (always go on the toms), but willing to bet they will be killer.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby danander11 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:22 pm

Up top I use a 57 with a beyer M420 taped to it.. Similar, but different... When I mix I can go back and forth between the two to see which likes the song better.

On the bottom, I use a senn 504. A cheap mic that gives me what I need for a lot of things. And it's small.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Lee Cardan » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:31 am

Telefunken M80 is my new go to - awesome snare mic
Previously I used Beyer M201, Sennheiser e906, and SM57
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby ChrisW » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:00 am

Would love to try the e22s.
Never even seen one as yet. I guess with the exchange rate there's never been a better time to splurge.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby AnthonyMF » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:01 pm

I've had great success with a Pg81 taped to an Sm57, but not with an Sm81 or C1000 in it's place. Sm81 didn't add enough grit, and the C1000 was high end overkill. I think I was running them through Vintech pre's.

The couple of times I've used an Sm7 as snare mic I've loved it, I need to get one for myself! Windsock off, of course.

I once used a U87 in figure 8 mic'ing the shell of a snare, with a 57 lined up above it. The idea was to reject the hi-hats in the u87's off side. It didn't work, they were too close and just swamped the 87, but it wasn't a bad snare sound.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby rick » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:24 pm

a big deal at one point was to tape a beyer 201 to a 57 and blend them
lots of guys did it or asked that we did we it for them

i cannot even remember what the 201 sounded like by itself- it wasnt my thing didnt and dont own one
hypercardiod dynamic ?
seemed dumb to tie those two mike together
but it was very popular so it must have worked out well i am curious
anybody still use them taped to a 57 like that ?
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby rick » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:32 pm

images.jpeg
would it be wrong if i asked the assistant to put a 57 on a snare and grabbed on of these neumann 57s ?
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby waitup » Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:38 pm

rick wrote:a big deal at one point was to tape a beyer 201 to a 57 and blend them
lots of guys did it or asked that we did we it for them

i cannot even remember what the 201 sounded like by itself- it wasnt my thing didnt and dont own one
hypercardiod dynamic ?
seemed dumb to tie those two mike together
but it was very popular so it must have worked out well i am curious
anybody still use them taped to a 57 like that ?


I've seen heaps of people do and swear by this, but if you tape them together and point the mics so the back of the 57's cardioid is point at the hats, then the rear lobe of the 201 is pointing at them. If you move it so the back of the 201 is pointing into a void, the the 57s cardioid is sideways to the hats. I dunno, I always found the 201/57 tape trick to be a great way to turn your snare drum track into a hi-hat track.

Lately I've had good results mic'ing both the top and bottom with 201's, or for quieter drums I got for a KM84 if possible.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby mylesgm » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:05 pm

I actually dig the Sm57 on snare (not the um57 rick because I've never had one in my hand to try) but am happy to use any of these mics: m201, m88, m69, audix d2, uher m534, c451, km85, mv692 with m70 cap and I'm still trying different things out. The number 1 thing i do for any form of music other than jazz is to make certain that I have a mono ribbon overhead for snare tone no matter what other overheads I have up. I also always use a bottom mic though which mic it is never seems to bother me much and I record it without flipping the phase then check the phase whilst monitoring or mixing and choose phase option then. The way I like to get a snare sound is to put up the mics the studio has then alter their position and the tone of the drum to get the sound the track needs and almost always use a wallet on the snare. I know that acoustically it sounds too damped but recorded it work perfect for me almost everytime. Too me it sounds like great compression!

On brushes I find a condenser is imperative.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Linear » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:09 pm

The biggest issue recording drums in my opinion is spill and phase.

That's why with drum mics, the most important aspect of a mic is how well it receives (or rejects) off-axis stuff (the on axis stuff is easy).

That's also why 90% of the mics I use on a drum kit are either ribbons or dynamics. Condenser, while great for soft stuff pick up too much of everything else. Coles and RCA ribbons are great because their off-axis pickup still sounds great.

I like Beyer 201's on snare - given that the snare mike is usually right next to the hihat (the loudest thing on a kit) it needs to be the thing rejecting the most. And the 201 seems to do that really well.

The other reason I like a 201 is because unlike a 57, the metal body goes right to the end of the microphone. So if the drummer hits the mic - and they ~always~ do no matter where you place the mics - he isn't going to knock the end off it. My 201 has been battered and beaten, but still looks the same and works fine. Last time I used a 57 the end got knocked off it!

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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby obutcher » Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:38 pm

I like the Beta 57 on snare as it cuts out a lot of hi-hat spill. I just make sure the null is pointed towards the hi-hat and I'm good to go. Sometimes I'll tape a KM84 to it as well for a bit of attack, though if the hi-hat in is the null of the Beta 57, the KM84 can get a lot of spill in it. Always got to balance them.

i5? On bottom snare maybe. Never been too impressed by it's top snare work, would rather a 57.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby rick » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:09 pm

snare_mics.jpg
decisions decisions :)
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby rick » Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:10 pm

snare4.jpg
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