Other than 57's on a Snare...

Let's talk about kits and mics, new and old. What are you using? What do you want? What's the difference?

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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Junction » Sat Jun 04, 2011 7:06 pm

I wonder if you have enough mics on that snare Rick?

... what about mic position, where do you stick yours?

I have great success with placing a 57 parallel with the top skin, pointing at the very top edge of the rim, half of the capsule peeking over the rim and half at the side of the rim and as close as possible to the rim, as close as 1cm or so away, just as long as they dont connect druing play. This gives me a big snare sound, lots of body yet still capturing plenty of snap.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Ausrock » Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:39 pm

Gawd, there's nothing like giving a drummer a choice of targets.

If I trust the drummer AND if I know he has understood what will happen to him should he damage the mic, I will first try an MD-441 on snare duty.

What seems to have been ignored in this discussion is how much the character of each individual snare (and it's surrounds) will influence your choice of mic...............I guess my point is that there probably isn't one specific mic that is guaranteed to work first time, every time.

B-)
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Ben M » Sat Jun 04, 2011 9:45 pm

Ausrock wrote:What seems to have been ignored in this discussion is how much the character of each individual snare (and it's surrounds) will influence your choice of mic...............I guess my point is that there probably isn't one specific mic that is guaranteed to work first time, every time.

B-)


Very good point
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby ChrisW » Sat Jun 04, 2011 10:16 pm

Snare drums differ, but 90% of the recordings I've worked on have still used a 57.
Whoever the producer, whatever the country.
It's quite remarkable.
Probably the most used drum mic.....ever.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby stosostu » Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:08 pm

During the Adelaide Fringe Festival, I had to do a very quick change between acts and all I had time to do for drums was a DM90 in the kick and a single SM57 overhead, pointing directly down at the kit from about 1 metre above. The drummers mates were at the show and they all told him what a great drum sound he had, so much so that, even though I had more time the next night, he insisted on that simple setup again. It did sound good, sometimes simple really is best.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Ben M » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:12 pm

My old studio boss from the early 90's used to mic everything on the kit with 57's (except the kick). We had lots of choices available 67's, 47's, 87's, 451's, 414's, Schoeps, 421's, 441's, etc, etc....but no it was Sm57's all round + D12 on kick.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby rick » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:57 pm

I wonder if you have enough mics on that snare Rick?

... what about mic position, where do you stick yours?



sorry i should have explained .... they are nothing to do with me just some internet drum folly i found
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Jason » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:54 pm

[quote="rick"]

[attachment=0]snare_mics.jpg[/attachment]

decisions decisions[/quote]


Dumb question............ How do you hit it???? ;)
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Jason » Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:56 pm

Bugger. with out the picture this makes no sence. doh!

Its the one with all the mics around it ;-)
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby GlennS » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:17 pm

Ausrock wrote:What seems to have been ignored in this discussion is how much the character of each individual snare (and it's surrounds) will influence your choice of mic...


To be honest, probably not at all!
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby The Tasmanian » Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:44 pm

Beyer 201 for me
indestructible
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Ben M » Tue Jun 07, 2011 10:18 pm

GlennS wrote:DPA 4011 is classy on snare, but I love it most when it's next to a 57.
If you have an Oktava MK219 try it. It's the mic I use most on top now.
If I do use a second mic, which is not all that often these days, it's usually an Oktava MC012 either on the bottom or on the hole on the side of the snare.


GlennS wrote:I used 414 on snare on a live jazz album once. I just listened to it again the other day & it still sounds pretty good to me.


GlennS wrote:
Ausrock wrote:What seems to have been ignored in this discussion is how much the character of each individual snare (and it's surrounds) will influence your choice of mic...


To be honest, probably not at all!



ok Glenn....which is it?


Just being Cheeky :D

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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Ausrock » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:13 am

Ben M wrote:
GlennS wrote:DPA 4011 is classy on snare, but I love it most when it's next to a 57.
If you have an Oktava MK219 try it. It's the mic I use most on top now.
If I do use a second mic, which is not all that often these days, it's usually an Oktava MC012 either on the bottom or on the hole on the side of the snare.


GlennS wrote:I used 414 on snare on a live jazz album once. I just listened to it again the other day & it still sounds pretty good to me.


GlennS wrote:
Ausrock wrote:What seems to have been ignored in this discussion is how much the character of each individual snare (and it's surrounds) will influence your choice of mic...


To be honest, probably not at all!



ok Glenn....which is it?



Just being Cheeky

Ben


Yeah, well I was going to leave that alone ;)
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby GlennS » Wed Jun 08, 2011 9:58 am

Ha! I never considered the character of the snare or it's surrounds when I chose those mics, only the character of the recording. Most times I just use my MK219. I'm always happy to try something new though. A little while ago I tried a Neumann KM120 (fig 8) to see how much hihat & rack tom bleed could be minimised using the nulls. As it turns out it was less than I thought it would, but still a very nice open sound not requiring much eq, if any.

I'm curious now though. How much does the character of the snare influence YOUR choice of mic & why?
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby The Tasmanian » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:22 am

Sometimes when the snare has a very deep shell and low tuned I will use a KM84i or a 451EB. Other times if someone uses a thin piccolo (yuk!) then I will reach for a mic that has a bigger low end.
But on the average size snare a 201 always works for me, nice open top end - or sometimes a 57.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Ben M » Wed Jun 08, 2011 11:53 am

Ausrock wrote:What seems to have been ignored in this discussion is how much the character of each individual snare (and it's surrounds) will influence your choice of mic

Glenn...there are so many variables I think my brain would explode.
I was thinking more along the lines of different snare characteristics such as -
boxy or dampened sound, bright open marching sound, thin poxy piccolo (couldn't agree more Chris), metal?, wooden? and so on. If we change snares for different songs then it's possible the mic may need changing as well.
Then there's the surrounds..... Sometimes I'll record various combinations of kit from 2 piece to 10 piece and anywhere in between. This will determine where I can get away with placing the mic. For example.. if it's a limited kit size with only floor, kick, snare then I'd have the luxury of pulling the mic off the snare by a few inches. I prefer this sound and whenever it's possible to be less direct with the snare sound I will.... but as soon as you add rack toms, hihats more crashes etc the spill will increase and then its back to close micing. It depends what the kit is made up of, type of snare, the weight at which the drummer hits, the room it's in etcetc will ultimately determine what mic gets the duties.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby mrtuesday » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:32 am

Ben M wrote:My old studio boss from the early 90's used to mic everything on the kit with 57's (except the kick). We had lots of choices available 67's, 47's, 87's, 451's, 414's, Schoeps, 421's, 441's, etc, etc....but no it was Sm57's all round + D12 on kick.


The Hall & Oats $300 drum sound:
http://www.barryrudolph.com/stellar/300 ... sound.html

Once I used an i5 never gone back to the 57 - similar sound but MUCH less hat bleed (always a problem for me).
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby rick » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:54 pm

thats a great article malcom :)
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby DrAlienSmith » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:17 pm

Great discussion guys!

90% of the time I go with my G5790 (the custom bent sm57). My I5 usually lives on small toms but I always go back to the 57 whenever I try it on snare. I also have the 201 which does get a go occasionally, it seems fuller than the 57 but not as aggressive.

Looking forward to trying the 414 on my next session, hadn't really thought of it as an option but seeing as I've been using my pair less on overheads lately, I'll give it a go.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby chribble » Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 pm

yeah i5's a good - brighter. cmon 57's arn't that bad.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Hookemeister » Sat Jul 02, 2011 3:44 am

Other well known substitutes are D19 (ala Emerick) and km84.


I'd be very nervous about letting a drummer anywhere near my D19 or KM84. I know a guy who does live sound an he showed me the condition of some of his snare mics... not pretty!
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby Drumstruck » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:54 pm

... after failing to get a great sound (that's a great sound) from my brass snare using a 57 I'm now trying the D11 that normally lives in the BD. And woe betide the 57 that just got relegated to BD duties - we shall see what we shall hear /:)
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby musikwerks » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:46 pm

Last time I recorded drums I had a 57 and the Josephson on top. In the mix I went for the Josephson every time. It felt far more focused, with less spill, tighter and more body, more... "whack". It would be my preference every time after that, but a 57 still does the job and then I can use it to trigger layer after layer of samples later on.
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Re: Other than 57's on a Snare...

Postby ChrisW » Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:17 pm

Yeah, always wanted to try the Josephson (e22s ?).
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