Wooden Hoops

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Wooden Hoops

Postby Gentleman » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:42 pm

I have a very well made 80's wooden snare drum 10 lug, and I don't like the sound. Would wooden hoops improve the sound? It is a very difficult drum to tune, honks at 390hz, which I can almost tune out. Would be interested in any thoughts. Thanks!
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Ben M » Wed Apr 04, 2012 6:53 pm

I could offer one suggestion for the tuning if I may - Try some nylon washers where the lugs pinch the rim. Possibly wax is another. It may help keep the tuning where you want it.

I'm interested to see where this topic leads.
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Manning » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:11 pm

Ben M wrote:I'm interested to see where this topic leads.


Judging by today's general efforts, probably to something scatological.

:)
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Gentleman » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:33 pm

Ben M wrote:I could offer one suggestion for the tuning if I may - Try some nylon washers where the lugs pinch the rim. Possibly wax is another. It may help keep the tuning where you want it.

I'm interested to see where this topic leads.


Wax? You mean on the thread of the lug or where the lug meets the rim?
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Ben M » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:50 pm

Gentleman wrote:
Ben M wrote:I could offer one suggestion for the tuning if I may - Try some nylon washers where the lugs pinch the rim. Possibly wax is another. It may help keep the tuning where you want it.

I'm interested to see where this topic leads.


Wax? You mean on the thread of the lug or where the lug meets the rim?


Sorry was meaning where the lug screw meets the rim for the nylon washer and wax wherever you think it might be effective, thread?, at the pinch point?? Just thoughts...
Is it possible that the drum is tuned too high? Have you tried tuning down to get rid of the honk?

Manning wrote:
Ben M wrote:I'm interested to see where this topic leads.


Judging by today's general efforts, probably to something scatological.

:)


Scatological - Doobedee doo ba ba
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Gentleman » Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:26 pm

How does the washer and wax work, what will it do? btw the drum isn't tuned too high, it should be a 1/4 - 1/3 turn higher but then the honk is a bigger issue.
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Ben M » Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:05 am

Gentleman - does your snare have wooden rims or are we talking about different things?? That's what I'm assuming but I could be wrong.
If it does, are the rims held on by lugs hooking over the rim? or does the lug screw hold the rim down by itself.

My suggestion was only intended to help the drum keep its tuning (you did say it was hard to tune). I use wax on my cello pegs to hold them in place. It acts as a locking agent. I was thinking that could work with the snare to get some purchase between the wood and the screw head. It was only a passing suggestion and i wasn't suggesting to use both washer and wax...just one or the other.

Would you mind posting a pic of the snare so we can clarify the situation.

Oh and we all use signatures on this forum. It's one of the few rules. You can edit this in your profile when logged in.

Cheers
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby ChrisW » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:03 am

I think he's asking if wooden hoops would improve the sound, remove the honk.
I would say no.
If a drum fundamentally doesn't sound good to you, modification is likely a waste of money, especially as there are many, many great sounding wood shell snare drums available.
As to wood hoops..... they tend to fatten the sound a bit, dry the sound (less sustain) and obviously soften/warm any rimshots you might play. They don't remove annoying frequencies, or turn an average or poor drum into a stellar one.
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Drumstruck » Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:52 am

+1 on everything Chris said.

The easiest way to change the sound is to change the skins. What skins do you have on it atm? Could you tell us how deep the drum is?
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby ChrisW » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:07 am

Yes, head choice can help, also proper tuning.
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Ben M » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:12 am

Apologies if I misunderstood and steered way off track. (%)
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Gentleman » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:37 pm

The drum has ambassadors(new) with steel hoops. I can get a usable sound just disappointed it isn't better. I think I will go back to steel 6 inch. I see alot of TV drummers with wooden hoops, thought that it might be some sort of secret weapon but obviously the fundamentals have to be right to get the benefit. Thx!
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby The Tasmanian » Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:48 pm

Sometimes the drum gels can take out a bit of the honk.
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Drumstruck » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:36 pm

Try:

- laying a folded hanky on the skin (near the edge) for a test (I'll bet most of the honk disappears)

- tuning the hazy up a few semitones may get rid of a bit more

If this works a diplomat hazy and emperor batter may be the answer
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Gentleman » Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:54 pm

Drumstruck wrote:Try:

- laying a folded hanky on the skin (near the edge) for a test (I'll bet most of the honk disappears)

- tuning the hazy up a few semitones may get rid of a bit more

If this works a diplomat hazy and emperor batter may be the answer


Yes, I have a small piece of polystyrene foam taped to the head which all but removes the honk, but it is annoying that it doesn't tune out, which made me think it was hoop related?
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Drumstruck » Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:04 pm

It's pretty common Henry - I find most drums (snares, toms and BDs) have an overtone or honk. It shows up more in snares because you hear them hit so often and it gets in the way of the snarey sound.

I'd be interested to hear if tuning up the bottom skin and loosening the snare wires a bit helps more.

I do find that cheaper snares (esp metal ones) have a dominant honk and insensitive snare response.
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Gentleman » Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:23 pm

Can you recommend a snare wire?
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby ChrisW » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:09 pm

What is the drum by the way (make, model)?

As for overtones, I do generally use a little tape, maybe some tissue.
It really depends on the drummer and the music. The louder, more brash the music, the more you want to preserve the overtones, or else your drum will sound too small (over controlled).

You mention polystyrene? That's too hard as a material to deaden errant tones. I'll use gaffa as a first call, then toilet roll (with gaffa), then cloth (napkin, handkerchief) as I go further down the damping road.

It's totally possible with correct tuning to dial out most overtones, and be left with a little ring that sounds harmonically appropriate for the music. Personally, I'm not afraid to get that far, then add a little tape or tissue if I still feel the drum is ringing too much.
Finally, context.
A drum can sound horrible in isolation and/or in a small room.
If on a larger stage, or if heard in the context of a complete mix, or musical background, a ringing snare can sound perfect.
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Gentleman » Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:43 pm

Its an early 80's Procussion Kit, it would have been their top of line kit, it's all very well made, double hardware etc and it's in good cond. The toms and kick sound great for rock. It has a big P logo, and I thought it was a Premier kit at first, got the Kit with cases for $189 at an Auction House with decent hihats and a 16" Pearl Ride. I've been playing since I was 10 so I know how to tune a drum, my mate who is better than me he had a go at Tuning it and he couldn't improve it either, we both think its the drum.
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby ChrisW » Fri Apr 06, 2012 2:57 pm

Is that the Italian brand?
I had a snare.
It was ok, nothing killer.
I'd feel lucky if I found a nice sounding snare for $189, let alone a whole kit. So maybe you are expecting too much

Before abandoning all hope, I would try tuning up the bottom head a little, then try a few different tensionings on the top head and try backing off any errant tones with a little gaffa, or gaffa and tissue.
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Gentleman » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:22 pm

I thought maybe wooden hoops might help it, I see all these pro rock drummers with the oversized wooden hoops?
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby ChrisW » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:48 pm

I've got to say I see more pro drummers with metal hoops.
Besides, decent quality wood hoops, ones that wont split after a few hits, will cost more than your entire kit.
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Gentleman » Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:10 pm

Just saw this, an S Hoop, I think this will help me. http://www.bigbangdist.com/shoop.htm
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Gentleman » Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:33 pm

I have this photo of the logo, I can't find the other pics I had and my kids have my camera atm.
Image
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby ChrisW » Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:58 am

Personally i don't think changing the hoops is the answer.
They seem like low cost drums.
You can tease pro sounds out of low cost drums with good heads and perfect tuning. If you can't tease a good sound out, I say don't throw good money after bad, and just invest in a drum that sounds good out of the box.
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby Gentleman » Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:18 pm

ChrisW wrote:Personally i don't think changing the hoops is the answer.
They seem like low cost drums.
You can tease pro sounds out of low cost drums with good heads and perfect tuning. If you can't tease a good sound out, I say don't throw good money after bad, and just invest in a drum that sounds good out of the box.


Yeah, I think your right, a good snare is a good snare, thanks I will take your good advice!
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Re: Wooden Hoops

Postby ChrisW » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:10 pm

My advice isn't guaranteed perfect.
But the above advice was my gut feeling.
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