How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Let's talk about kits and mics, new and old. What are you using? What do you want? What's the difference?

Moderators: ChrisW, rick, Mark Bassett

How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby thephink » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:58 pm

Im struggling to get a kick sound that sits instead of punches. I have been recording a "rock kit" usually with a beta 52 inside the drum. Any suggestions for a different mic or position that gets a less punchy clicky kick and more of a thud that sits in the mix?

cheers.
John
thephink
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:44 pm

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby Chris H » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:03 am

Hi, and welcome to the forum. You might not have noticed but it's forum policy to put your name in your forum posts. You can edit your profile and put you name etc in the signature.

The beta 52 has a tailored frequency response so first thing would be to try a different mic.
The main thing will be the sound of the actual drum and how the player attacks the kick. I'm no drummer but i find playing with a softer hit of the kick pedal, and consistent playing will be the best fix. Something i find often is the kick will be sitting nice how i have miced etc until the drummer does a fill or section into a chorous, the player will hit the kick harder resulting in a clickier sound.Again, consistent playing is the fix. Compressing the kick will help to sit it in the mix but you have to be careful because compression will also often result in a clickier sound. Another thing re mic position, I use a dynamic mic just inside the hole of the front skin so as to avoid the air pulse. The sennheisser 421 can be handy in this spot as you can adjust the mics low end getting rid of the really low end and tightening up the kick.
Chris Hallam.
https://soundcloud.com/hallamsound
Whatever floats your boat.
User avatar
Chris H
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
 
Posts: 2261
Joined: Mon May 09, 2005 11:20 am
Location: Off The Planet

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby Kurt » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:21 am

Make sure the drummer isn't using a plastic/wooden/metal beater or a hard contact pad thing. Does the drum actually sound clicky in the room?
Kurt Neist
Chief cook and bottle washer - Metalworx
User avatar
Kurt
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 1:02 am
Location: Canberra

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby Wiz » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:26 am

After checking the above, I guess messing with mic position would be a good one too, distance from the beater and angle of the mic can have a large effect, if micing inside the drum. Also I guess you could have a crack at a compressor on it and slow the attack time of the compressor to lose the click....might work.
Peter Knight

Cant ego loquemur Latine

http://www.ozlandmusic.com
Wiz
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:17 pm

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby Drumstruck » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:29 am

Lots of suggestions for this one ...

- felt beater
- orient the mic away from the beater's contact point
- a front skin without a hole and external mic'ing should give more drum resonance / less impact
- eq the click freq out with a notch filter
- try 2 mics - one on the front skin / one on the batter and balance the levels to get the thud
- tune the batter a little higher and the resonant a little lower.......

arrh the black art of tuning drums :ar!
Ian Dare
Drumstruck
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 1513
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:37 pm
Location: Over the hills and far away

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby The Tasmanian » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:28 am

Try a AKG D112 - I find them much easier to EQ, and more versatile than the beta 52 which has a "scooped" sound to my ears. Plus moving the mic around - its amazing how a slight mic movement can really alter the sound.
C h r i z t o w n o
The Tasmanian
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 1877
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:04 am
Location: Deep in the woods....

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby jasound » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:07 am

Try a cushion,..... they help me sit.
A bit of padding inside the drum can help.
jasound
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:32 pm
Location: SYDNEY AUSTRALIA

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby ChrisW » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:14 am

All good advice.
I'm under the impression the Beta52 is a pretty 'punchy' mic.
I most often use a D12.
Just to relate what I do, which is very similar to all the above replies.....
Move the mic around until it sounds less clicky, punchy.
Use an outside mic to blend (a subkick perhaps, I use a U47 clone).
I use a pillow. I use a felt beater.
Whitten
ChrisW
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:01 pm
Location: Hunter

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby Lee Cardan » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:13 pm

I came across a great one recently

Gefell UM70 on FIG8 mic'd similarly to how you would a tom. so, a few inches off the resonant head, pointing towards a few inches in from the shell. Put some headphones on listening to the mic to find the sweet spot. Tracked into a Retro 2A3 and added a touch of 100Hz and a heap of 1.5K. Gives a great natural front of kick sound, and with the 2a3 doing the 1.5K there was no lack of attack whatsoever, but not clicky (yay) just a nice little thud. This also works well with a D12 but not as open and natural sounding

The intention was to leave a lot more room for the bass (1976 B15 > U47 FET > 2A3) so that was a fantastic bass sound and the kick pops itself in there nicely.
Lee Cardan
http://www.sunshine-recorder.com
Lee Cardan
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:59 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby Lee Cardan » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:20 pm

Wiz wrote:Also I guess you could have a crack at a compressor on it and slow the attack time of the compressor to lose the click....might work.


Transient designer is made for this, amazing tool
or you could gate with a slower attack but that gets dangerous

I think, move away from the assumed inside kick position and get creative with your capturing approach

What kind of music are you recording anyway?
Lee Cardan
http://www.sunshine-recorder.com
Lee Cardan
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:59 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby jkhuri44 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:25 am

you could loop a guitar riff with bass, and mess around with different micing IN a mix...rather than get to it after recording and realise the sound isnt what u wanted. I guess a kick is gonna sound different with the rest of the isntruments on top than when it's on its own....
Jamil Khuri
Amusement & Audio Engineer
"it's not awesome unless its 240bpm with distorted 909 kicks!"
jkhuri44
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
 
Posts: 2528
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:53 pm
Location: Dundas

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby thephink » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:47 pm

Wow, so many ideas i need to try! I am recording some funk rock at the moment, trying to go for that older 70's type drum sound , without all the older 70's gear. I will definitely give the different mic positions a bit more of a go next time.
John
thephink
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:44 pm

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby thephink » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:50 pm

Chris H wrote:Something i find often is the kick will be sitting nice how i have miced etc until the drummer does a fill or section into a chorous, the player will hit the kick harder resulting in a clickier sound.Again,


I know exactly what you mean, Im looking forward to a day when i get to record a super tight drummer.
John
thephink
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:44 pm

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby gregwalker » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:44 am

If it's the beater that's giving you that ugly 'clicky' sound I find a sock round it does wonders - control the level of thud versus click with how thick and/or how many sock-wrappings you use. I can never understand why many drummers don't use or at least have in their kit a softer felt or woollen beater, they always sound great to my ears, esp on quieter material. Also if the drum is full of damping pillows etc. try taking some of that stuff out and letting the drum breathe a bit.
gregwalker
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:26 am

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby Lee Cardan » Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:45 am

oh yeah
the right sounding kick with the right sounding drummer... don't even bother thinking about mic'ing until this is sorted out
Lee Cardan
http://www.sunshine-recorder.com
Lee Cardan
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 322
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 9:59 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby Drumstruck » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:27 am

gregwalker wrote:...... I can never understand why many drummers don't use or at least have in their kit a softer felt or woollen beater, they always sound great to my ears, esp on quieter material.......


Those fluffy beaters are quite hard to find nowadays (or else very expensive). Some guys are even sewing their own wool beaters....

I used to have a fluffy one and a rosewood beater for contrast - surprisingly the rosewood wasn't clicky but had a very precise sound - gotta get hunting again for both as the felt or plastic ones don't quite cut it for me.
Ian Dare
Drumstruck
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 1513
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:37 pm
Location: Over the hills and far away

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby jkhuri44 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:57 am

could u use those circle felt pads with sticky side which your Supposed to put on chairs to stop them from scratching wooden floors? they'd be pretty good i reckon, never tried em tho.
Jamil Khuri
Amusement & Audio Engineer
"it's not awesome unless its 240bpm with distorted 909 kicks!"
jkhuri44
Forum Veteran
Forum Veteran
 
Posts: 2528
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:53 pm
Location: Dundas

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby ChrisW » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:48 am

Possibly.
Back in the day we used moleskins, those sticky foot pads by Dr Scholl.
Personally I think if you want a less in-your-face bass drum ala 70's, the best thing to do is use a more neutral mic (not beta52) and back the mic away from the kick a little.
Whitten
ChrisW
Valued Contributor
Valued Contributor
 
Posts: 1285
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:01 pm
Location: Hunter

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby kritical » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:14 am

Try to get your hands on a Beyer M88, much softer tone than a 52 or d112 but plenty of that 70-90 hz thud. Try a nice compressor, I love the Tube Tech CL1B, drop the threshold so your getting on avge about 6-8db of gr, have a med release but (here's the trick) start your attack slow and slowly move it faster and faster, you will find that point where the attack starts to get a little gentler, now it's just a matter of finding at what point you like it (you can go to far) then if needed dial back the threshold a touch so your not sucking the life out of it and there you go, you've tamed the clickity clack!!
----------------------------------
Luke Day - Track Seven Studios
User avatar
kritical
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:13 pm

Re: How to get a kick sound that sits rather than punches

Postby GlennS » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:04 am

My instinct tells me a 421 just a fraction outside the hole (if there is a front skin with a hole) pointing at the beater, which would ideally be felt. That always sits in a mix for me.
Glenn Santry
HeartBeat Studio

www.myspace.com/glennsantry
GlennS
Registered User
Registered User
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:37 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia


Return to Recording Drums?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest