Splashy Hats?

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Splashy Hats?

Postby blackfoot » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:05 pm

Hey Chis can you advise us about HiHat control ? I often get drummers that have really heavy handed hat styles that swamp everything. Do you favour a particular type of cymbal or signal chain setup that helps control this? I don't want to cramp their style by telling them to play quieter.
PS Thanks for making yourself available to share your experience, we are truly blessed to have this forum.
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Re: Splashy Hats?

Postby jkhuri44 » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:09 pm

im not chris but...10" to 12-13" obviously the smaller, the less rocky....and the more "chink" sounding they become, the super micro hats like 10"s are used alot for DNB style drumming.

combine that with darker mic not pointing right at the hat itself, and you'll prob be able to avoid the prob.
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Re: Splashy Hats?

Postby Manning » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:34 pm

This may be harsh but...

http://www.sticktechnique.com/

:D
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Re: Splashy Hats?

Postby The Tasmanian » Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:32 pm

Problem usually is you cant get them out of the snare mic and they dominate the overheads and room.
I've found you just have to get them to not lay into them
Any good drummer should be open to adjusting their playing to suit the recording process - and most drummers are fine with playing them quieter - and sometimes this plus more mellow hats gets the desired results.
I've even put gaff on the hats for some drummers. Sometimes I've had to give them thinner sticks.
Because they are not used to lighter sticks, they are constantly reminded not to lay into them as the new stick keeps the reminder going in the drummers head.
If I think I hve a delicate ego drummer - I record them, then bring them back into the control room and solo the snare and show them the problem, once they hear it they do adjust how they play.
Its the same as acoustic guitarists that play way to hard when strumming - you get them to play softer, and change to a really thin pick.
Its all down to recording experience. If a drummer is not open to adjust their playing to suit this process then they will never have a career as a recording drummer.
Lay down the law and people respect you - and they get results.
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Re: Splashy Hats?

Postby Drumstruck » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:50 pm

The Tasmanian wrote:......
If I think I hve a delicate ego drummer - I record them, then bring them back into the control room and solo the snare and show them the problem, once they hear it they do adjust how they play.
......


You will go far with a PR attitude like that my son - very impressive - and works well with the delicate little flowers that we drummers are %-( There's a saying in literature - "show, don't tell" and you've captured the essence of that.

Oh, and I'm not Chris either, but one tip is to get the hats to sit level (horizontal) so there's less tendency to splash.
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Re: Splashy Hats?

Postby ChrisW » Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:54 pm

I've got to say it's usually a volume issue, and that comes down to the player.
I do drum clinics and I tell people I have a mental ratio figured out of loudness for each limb and each kit piece.
Bass drum typically gets hit hardest, as it's the foundation for most rock/pop. Hi-hats and cymbals get the least thwack. They are loud, cutting and get in the way.
Drummers play hi-hats and rides with their strongest hand (right hand for right handed people of course), and in that sense most inexperienced and/or nervous drummers tend to over emphasise their strong hand when playing, leading to weedy backbeats on snare and over loud hi-hats.
I think you need to start educating them.
Other solutions have varying degrees of success, but nothing as effective as persuading them to lay off the metalwork.
One idea is to pump hi-hats quite loudly into the headphone mix. This might have the effect of subliminally persuading them to back off. Another less satisfactory solution is to not mic the hi-hats and build a foam/cardboard barrier between snare mic and hi-hats.
As far as cymbal choice is concerned, I tend to go with thinner, darker cymbals, as they have a tendency to sit nicely volumewise. I advise drummers not to use loud rock cymbals in the studio.
I do find heavier hi-hats are brighter, crisper. So i do use those - like Zildjian New Beats.
But you really need to tickle them compared to the drums themselves.
And as far as positioning is concerned, I have my hi-hats as high as I can go without hurting my ability to play them properly. So they are as far away from snare and tom21 mics as possible. Another fault of younger drummers is having every kit piece tightly huddled together, making audio separation impossible.
So to conclude.....
1) My advice is to not compromise on the hi-hats themselves (13", 14" & 15", medium to medium/heavy tend to sound good).
2) Stress that the player should lay off the hi-hats and cymbals, and if anything, lay into the bass drum and snare.
3) If all else fails, build a barrier around the hi-hat to avoid spillage onto adjacent mics.
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Re: Splashy Hats?

Postby Gentleman » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:44 pm

If you have already recorded harsh cymbals an old trick is to de ess them quite a bit around 3-5K until they sound quite dull, then eq them around 5K ish or higher until they sound brighter again. Strips that wooly sound out of them and gives you definition that is stable that you can adjust as needed.
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Re: Splashy Hats?

Postby ChrisW » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:10 pm

Yeah, I've heard that de-essing works.
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