Bettering the 57

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Bettering the 57

Postby Lucas » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:23 pm

I'm looking at guitar cabinet mic options that will be a step up from a 57. I've used MD906s in the past and really like them, but thought there may some benefit in giving something else a crack.

If I was to acquire a couple of the more affordable ribbons like the Carillon Axis 70 or the Beez Neez Judas, would anyone use them if visiting our rig?

We have a bucket load of 57s, so that option would remain, but I'd like to think that the option of a couple of ribbons would be well received.
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby Chris H » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:46 pm

........watch out everyone, ...another 57 thread! Yahoo :D
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby Lucas » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:10 pm

Probably more of a live ribbon thread, but hay, whatever makes you happy!
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby obutcher » Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:49 pm

Would you be willing to allow random musicians to use your ribbon mics? We all know that if they're going to kick over a mic stand/spill their drink on something it'll be the one with the ribbon mic on it.
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby Chris H » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:50 pm

Lucas wrote:Probably more of a live ribbon thread, but hay, whatever makes you happy!

I often use my T&C ribbon, same as the carillion axis 70 on guitar cabs for live work, usualy with bands i know so I can avoid having the mic trashed. They are well worth having as an option.
Other mics I use are the beyer soundstar, or an old sennheiser ME 80 shotgun mic with the short capsule, if I'm finding the guitar a bit bright and edgy. A bit unconventional but they have a low output and tame the gnarly highs. And I use an old shure sm 56 because it's not a 57 ........if that makes any sense.
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby Kurt » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:04 am

Wouldn't a ribbon be prone to spill? Might work on big stages with quiet bands I guess...
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby stosostu » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:53 am

You guys may have a different clientelle to me but with one exception, I really don't have problems with bands trashing my equipment. The exception being the snare mic, and that is not intentional, usually, so a SM57 or usually an old model SM56, because its smaller and provides less of a target, is what I use.

I have used ribbons on stage, mainly as drum overheads, but not on guitar cabs. Since most ribbons are figure 8, I would imagine spill, as mentioned above, would be an issue. The other issue with ribbons, except those with phantom powered pre on board, is the extra gain they need and the losses involved with long cables and snakes.

OTOH nothing ventured, nothing gained.
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby Lucas » Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:44 am

I usually deal with experienced touring acts, so I'm not so concerned about damage.

To be honest, even the local acts I deal with are pretty respectful. I can't even recall loosing a snare mic...

I spoke to Ben? @ Beez Neez a few months ago about the spill issue - he suggested that you angle the mic upwards from the floor so that the rear lobe of the pattern is pointing towards the floor. I'd put something highly absorptive down to lessen reflections too.

What I'd really like to know, is if you were touring with an act and you came across a venue that gave you the ribbon option, would you take it?
Last edited by Lucas on Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby Kurt » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:23 am

Sure., I'd give them a shot, if I had time to try them out. The house guy wouldn't have them/offer them if they weren't usable.

Lucas wrote:What I'd really like to know, is if you were touring with an act and you came across a venue that gave you the ribbon option, would you take it?
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby Chris H » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:31 am

Re the spill with ribbons on guitar cab, as the cab is a loud sound source and the mic is relativley close then spill is not usually a problem but it's advisable to use a HPF to avoid low end build up. I only use the ribbons with bands i am familliar with or I know have a good onstage sound.
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby Lucas » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:27 am

Kurt wrote:Sure., I'd give them a shot, if I had time to try them out. The house guy wouldn't have them/offer them if they weren't usable.

Lucas wrote:What I'd really like to know, is if you were touring with an act and you came across a venue that gave you the ribbon option, would you take it?



Time is the problem. It's always the problem...
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby obutcher » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:23 pm

Like Kurt, if I had time, I'd give them a go. Also depends on the band and if they're keen for experimentation. Most people I work with have a clear idea in their head of what sound they want, but it would be a nice option to have.
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby Zack » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:01 pm

If I was coming through a venue, I would want to use the standard stuff. Stuff I know. Stuff I've used before. Anything out of the ordinary, I would carry with me. I know this is how most people work.

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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby Kurt » Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:44 am

Define "most people". In my experience the majority of soundguys will work without complaint with whatever is available. I use mostly Audio Technica mics, very few people have been upset that they haven't seen them before.. In fact many visiting soundguys are quite happy to get acquainted with the desk/fx etc while I mic up the stage and never even ask what mics are where.

The ones who get thingy about the fact that I only have 1 57 tend to be Dip.Mus. types fresh out of (or still in) school.


Zack wrote:If I was coming through a venue, I would want to use the standard stuff. Stuff I know. Stuff I've used before. Anything out of the ordinary, I would carry with me. I know this is how most people work.

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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby Chris H » Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:20 am

I did a gig not long ago where the mic kit was all Sampson exept for the vox which where the standard 58's. The PA was ok and I found the Samsons as good as any standard shure setup as close mics but I used my own ribbons for OH.
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby Zack » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:11 pm

Kurt wrote:Define "most people". In my experience the majority of soundguys will work without complaint with whatever is available. I use mostly Audio Technica mics, very few people have been upset that they haven't seen them before.. In fact many visiting soundguys are quite happy to get acquainted with the desk/fx etc while I mic up the stage and never even ask what mics are where.

The ones who get thingy about the fact that I only have 1 57 tend to be Dip.Mus. types fresh out of (or still in) school.


Kurt, don't get me wrong, some people are happy to try new things. And as you say, we work with whatever is available, that's a deffinate.

But if what's available is a '57 - which I have used on guitars many times before and with good enough results, or a completely different mic that I have not used before and do not know how it would sound, I know I'd choose the '57 every time. I know that I won't have time to swap out mics because they aren't quite cutting the mustard. So choose what you know will get you where you need to go.

My statement was based solely on my experience working in-house gigs. One venue I work at has a couple of AE3000 mic's which I personally love on guitars. Every time a touring engineer doesn't bring his own mic's for guitar I make the suggestion to use these. Most times they will end up using a '57 or beta 57, which they know and trust. Just one example.

But if you're in a situation where there aren't a range of mic's to choose from, of course you'll use whatever's available.
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Re: Bettering the 57

Postby gigpiglet » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:56 pm

i can go either way.
depending on my mood on the day - the "vibe" of the PA and systems guy
and the act i am working with.

if i feel like trying/ have time/ have heard something about an item and am interested in hearing it - totally give it a go!
having said that - some artists would totally freak if there was a mic on there (whatever instrument) they had never seen before (even if it was a better one!)

mainly though its the vibe of the place.. if its a good looking/ sounding/ maintained system, with a knowledgable fellow in charge, who says "if you would like i have x, y and z that you can try for your guitars. they are sort of like a 57, but with more/ less etc" i would give them a go for sure
i used to always tour senny 609 and people would question them all the time (i used on toms and guitars) once you say - its a lot like a 57, but a bit smoother in the upper mids, and a bit more meat down below, really suits this band - people usually say great, i must give them a go some time!
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