Live recording via insert points

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Live recording via insert points

Postby dave01.cooper » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:18 pm

Hey all,

got a gig to record in the home town of Launceston, Tas next wknd but seems the desk in question has no direct outs... Have heard a few different options for utulising this:

1. Plug a TS - TS cable all the way in via the insert point but problem with this is signal is post insert & no longer sent to the mixers main outputs (however what if that channel was sent to a specific group -> LR, would it still interrupt the signal?)
2. Using the half in method. Using a TS - TS cable plug it in so only hear 1 'click'. This seems fraught with danger if the plug either goes all the way in or slips out...
3. Make up your own cables/looms as TS - TRS but short the tip & ring together on the TRS end and plug the TS cable in the whole way.

Has anyone had success/failure with any of the above methods?

Problem with all is no insert points can be used on all channels wanting to record and as I'm not mixing the show unknown of what his/hers needs are...

Any opinions or stories would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers
Dave Cooper

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Re: Live recording via insert points

Postby Chris H » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:34 pm

Who are you recording,..... Save the Clock Tower?
I have done this often but it depends on the desk. Some desks like the mackie are made to have a definite first click position for just this purpose, others are ok at the first click and others will too easily cut the signal for FOH. Check the desk out as soon as you can to see how it copes so you can get a plan together.Here are a few work arounds/ suggestions.
Plug in an insert lead with the send to your recorder and from the recorder back. My A/D converter has software monitoring that bypasses any latency issues. Bit risky but works. Also use Any aux sends or matrixes on the desk if it has any to get chanels to your recorder. Better still if you can get a splitter for the job and set it up at the desk end. and go line level into it after the inserts?
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Re: Live recording via insert points

Postby dave01.cooper » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:43 pm

Hah funny you say Save The Clocktower, my mate Luke sings in that band. But no, it's Guthrie at The Oak on 16th, come check it out if your free or in the state Chris :)

Have just found out the mixing engineer is bringing a Yamaha LS9 with 16 channels of 24/48 adat out so no worries about the insert points nor other desk... a good thing really. Need to find out what their mic collection is but have a feeling it won't be crash hot so may bring a selection of my own.

Better still if you can get a splitter for the job and set it up at the desk end


are these readily available to purchase? thinking of making one if get more recording gigs under my belt.

cheers
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Re: Live recording via insert points

Postby Chris H » Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:04 am

My Nephew, Joel Hallam is the guitarist in Save the Clocktower.

Good splitters can be pricey to buy. The most reliable are passive transformer splitters. Still not cheap but if you can get your transformers at a good price the DIY option is not a bad way to go.
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Re: Live recording via insert points

Postby Futureman » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:19 am

You could make a custom insert lead that has a trimmer resistor a across the tip and ring, and use this signal drop to 'sniff' the signal to your recorder.

I've seen it done before, but never personally tried it.. It does seem 'sound' in concept to me.

If you are good with a soldering iron, it should take a few hours to knock up.
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Re: Live recording via insert points

Postby Chinagraf » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:24 am

If the mixer isn't movimg the 'half in' method shouldn't be a problem.
I recorded a bunch of bands/artists all in some pretty weird locations using that method with a Mackie and DA-88
for an ABC show years ago and never had a plug fall out.
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Re: Live recording via insert points

Postby Kurt » Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:07 pm

Guthrie are great but not exactly hi-fi... I don't think mic selection is really going to be an issue.

dave01.cooper wrote:Hah funny you say Save The Clocktower, my mate Luke sings in that band. But no, it's Guthrie at The Oak on 16th, come check it out if your free or in the state Chris :)

Have just found out the mixing engineer is bringing a Yamaha LS9 with 16 channels of 24/48 adat out so no worries about the insert points nor other desk... a good thing really. Need to find out what their mic collection is but have a feeling it won't be crash hot so may bring a selection of my own.

Better still if you can get a splitter for the job and set it up at the desk end


are these readily available to purchase? thinking of making one if get more recording gigs under my belt.

cheers
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Re: Live recording via insert points

Postby dave01.cooper » Tue Jun 12, 2012 11:21 pm

Regardless if hi-fi or not, a 'nicer' better sounding signal is always paramount no? Don't think i could achieve a nice overhead sound with pg81s compared to a set of 451s.

My Nephew, Joel Hallam is the guitarist in Save the Clocktower.


Wow now that is a coincidence. Those boys are going great guns - hope they get picked up along the way, they deserve it.

trimmer resistor a across the tip and ring


excuse my ignorance but what type of resistor's that? am more than handy with a soldering iron & have a number of trs to something looms lying around that could fashion something of this nature up if it came down to it...

cheers
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Re: Live recording via insert points

Postby gigpiglet » Fri Jun 15, 2012 10:14 pm

i have had to in my time do the half in... but only as an emergency.
i would never plan to do a gig that way. apart from the "risk" to the recording - what if i want the insert to actually do what its meant to!

I'm sure you could hire a cheap enough split for the night from the local sound company (frontline is in tassie, ask for chris and tell him i sent you)
OR the venue might have a monitor split there thats not being used (often the case)
OR if you have a lot of shows coming up, just buy.. i have found good/ cheap splitters from violet audio. not my "pro rig" but for getting a job done they are a good bet.
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Re: Live recording via insert points

Postby dave01.cooper » Sun Jun 17, 2012 9:05 pm

Hey Gareth

cheers for the heads up on the about violet audio.
All good though, the show was last night & mixer Merujan brought his own Yamaha 01V96 which he sent 16 channels out his adat to my RME 800. Worked flawlessly. Ran a couple of room mics to the internal pre's on the RME + my Zoom H4n and all in all came up really good for that sized gig! Now editing...

Cheers
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Re: Live recording via insert points

Postby gigpiglet » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:10 pm

great to hear it worked out
thats the thing about live recording... (and any recording for that matter) there really is no "right" way

i often talk about "my x girlfriends boyfriend has got a band" a SINGLE from MGFs highest selling album.
i recorded it live, stereo off the console, to minidisc...
it was a reference/ desk tape/ whatever you call it.
ended up the best version of the song and it stuck.
nothing right about that recording though!!
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