Turtlerock Forum

A friend of mine is setting up a brand new live venue (250 people) as he has just acquired a great space above a pizza restaurant. It will be for rock bands mainly. We cant decide on wether to get an analogue set up or to get a digital desk. We have been looking for something like the Allen and Heath GLD 112

Pro's for the digital desk are: FX Processing built in for every channel, template/scene recall, cat 5 cable , ipad App for remote mixing, recording options, Fast work flow, lights up colourful in the dark, no need for external outboard and lots of cabling, less gear to power up and maintain

Pros for the analogue desk: Outside engineers can follow the routing quicker then a digital desk in an emergency, freedom to select different brands of processing, possibly easier to service for a tech,

Apart from the line 6, Beh!@#$%^, Soundcraft and Presonus what else should we be looking at or considering?

hi lee
main question for me would be - who will be using it?
ie: are you expecting outside engineers most the time? (are those the kind of acts they will be booking?)
or is it likely to be the house guy at the desk for 90% of the gigs?

as you mention - a digital desk can do a lot for you
but for a room that size - does all that need to be done?

how many sends of monitors will you be running?
that probably influences the answer more than anything else

There will be a house engineer 90% of the time even when bands bring there own guy.
Sends will be to the main amps and 4 to six wedges. I like that there are spare outputs incase the singers have in ear monitors.
He wants to have a kick ass sound system and is looking at the JBL VRX 900 with crown I-tech 4 amps or the QSC equiverlant. 2 subs and top boxes per side. The I-tech 4 amps have the on board dsp. We can set the room up and save the preset so if and away engineer wants to tune it he can and we just switch it back.

theJBL VRX are great boxes. I've used them a lot.
BUT beware the angles of them.. 150 (or 180 or something) wide, and 5 vertical
for a small club - thats probably exactly the coverage you DONT want.. be banging into walls all over the place, and only getting top end to the front couple rows (unless you can get them up really high/ hang them)

i personally feel you would be much better off with a couple of PS15s/ side (or if you want to stay JBL, a couple of the bigger PRX boxes)
the itch amps are excellent for sure - and yes - cool that you can have a "house tune" in them (as long as its good!)

the allen and heath digital is an easy enough to use (and you see enough of them around) console. but no one is saying its amazing.. for a 250 cap room though. i don't think you will get any complaints.
the soundcraft digitals are great boards. really good value for money in my opinion and i use them them a lot. probably a bit more common.

though for your money, you could probably easily get a mix wizard, or small sound craft something, with 3 outboard EQs, and a couple of comps/ FX and have a really nice easy analogue set up.
you really DONT need a comp on every channel in a 250 room
you probably don't need a gate at all.
2 FX is all you need.

so if thats all you are using from your 3k digital desk. do you need to pay for it?

I'm happy to drop in and see the place and offer comment if you would like.
get in touch on the email

I was going to suggest a mix wiz as well. Good eq and with the six aux
sends, u have enough options.

Thanks Gareth Thats really great of you to offer. I will email you when the time is right.
We have been looking at the QSC KLA line array for each side and 4 18 inch subs under the stage as it has along room with high ceilings. What are your thoughts on having one line array in the middle above the subs Insted of two arrays on the sides?

im not a lover of subs under the stage (or rather - bands usually arnt)

one array "may" work
depending on the room
but its pretty "non standard"
imagine if you came to work at someones studio and they said "i just have the single centre monitor speaker - you cool with that"
probably wouldn't fly right? ;-)

I've only used the KLA array a couple times, but it seemed pretty good to me!
if the price is right… would be a contender for sure

We are now looking at some Martin blackline h3h boxes for two reasons. They can be hung left and right with out being to long like the line array idea so the stage is visible and the band or patrons don't hit there heads. The second is they have the angle/ coverage to cover the whole room.
http://www.martin-audio.com/products/H3H+.asp


Regarding subs under the stage I thought the bands would love to feel the subs? I got the idea from the Oxford art factory.

the blackline boxes are cool
for exactly the reasons you mention
and you should be able to find them for a reasonable price.

re the subs
its one of those "great ideas" that never seems to work
bands always comment on bad monitors with subs under the stage
though it can get a job done - its certainly not ideal.

I guess we could stack them up underneath the speaker at the sides or put them in front of the stage?
I spoke to someone very experienced playing live shows for about 30 years and he said he didn't like subs under the stage as the vibriations come up thought he mics and feedback so he said to possibly isolate them from the stage or put them in front. Might think about that one.

underneath the speakers at the side is my bet
but every room is different..
as i mentioned - happy to drop in for a beer and a look if you like

Sounds cool is there a time in the evenings after six next week mon, tue, or wed you can make it out? my email is: mr_gumboss@yahoo.com.au

Lee, check out the QU series by Allen and Heath. The 16 ch frame has been out for a while and a 24 channel version is at NAMM. Not as complex as the GLD for system architecture, and a whole heap cheaper no doubt.

Thanks I already have the quote for that one as it does everything we need at 5K, still uses the stage box with Cat5 cable for the long run. It's a great option.