Value...

[smash]

Here's one for the more experieced DIYers out there...

How about starting a list of the best value DIY kits out there....

Please note Value does not equal cheap... I am specifically looking for things that can be trusted not to be the weakest link in the chain.... I want quality....

and by Kit... I don't necessarilly mean "kit" but I do require accessability... theres no point having an amazing schematic, if it requires some estoric transformer that can only be found by solving a 5 part quiz given to you by a tibetan monk...

For starters... How are the JLM Pre's - Rick is always saying buy Neumanns and Neves... How does the JLM Micro 1290 compare.... obviosly it is not a Neve ( No E.Q. for starters ) but basically is this, for example, worth having, or do I really need to save up for another 18 months an buy an "actual" Neve?

[chris p]

Yo Smash

Any of Joe's kits qualify, in my view. They ooze quality in everything from design through to manufacture. And the Baby Animal kits in particular are just so versatile: by selecting different op amp and transformer combinations you can get preamps that range from crystal through to cream.

I'm not saying they are Neve - but I be surprised if you threw them out even when you've bought your Neve. And always remember that Neves do not cure bad performances by talent or engineer, whereas great talent and good engineering sounds fantastic on a 4 track. Great talent, well recorded through a JLM 99V or Baby Animal would be able to hold its head high in any company.

That said, I'm in this for pleasure not business. A JLM DIY kit won't grab a client the way a Neve might. But a JLM class A preamp (8 channels for $7k) might, once they hear it.

FWIW, PAIA kits are OK, but tend to be weakened by the use of cheaper components/designs. Understandable for the market, but more prosumer than pro (which of course means I have a PAIA kit in my collection!).

The Gyraf clones likewise tend to use "run of the mill" chips like NE5532/34, and carry lots of caps in the input/output stages. Bearing in mind that the design work is in fact free, you can't really complain, and the results can still be very useable. There's also a large community to develop nice variations to try. I don't think they detract from the sound, but sometimes they don't add much in the way of magic sparkle either (or perhaps they just need some output transformers).

My "great value" DIY kits would also include the JLM power supplies, go-between, DI and VU meter kits. These modular building blocks can make all the difference in getting a project to actually work well.

Enough from me - anyone else?

[astrovic]

I agree with Chrisp with most of what 'e said, especially about the JLM stuff and the Paia stuff (I've built both - a Baby Animal and a Paia Tube Mic Pre).

I'd give Gyraf's designs a bigger wrap than has Chris - I think most of his comments relate more to the GSSL than the other designs. I'd agree that that particular design is not one that has convinced all comers, but at the same time there's a lot of devotees to it. The G1176 has a lot more going for it, IMO. (FWIW I've built both, and I've found the G1176 to have more in it that I like. But I like both. I haven't really been able to put either through their paces properly yet as my studio is all packed up while I re-paint it).

[After this point I go from what I know first hand to expressing my views on stuff I don't know first hand :)]

Then there's Seventh Circle - haven't tried their stuff, but I'm yet to hear of a complaint. Hamptone make the odd kit or two as well.

Beyond that, I think it starts to move into tibetan monk territory a little. But there are a lot of projects that might require some effort in tracking down parts, but the difficulty lies more in sourcing them from overseas rather than in being able to source them at all. Our US/UK/European friends have it a hell of a lot easier than us. The other difficulty is that very few people have put up on the web the amount of detail that say a Gyraf has, which means you have to go searching and digging to get all the info.

And then racking the modules from parted out old desks might be a great value DIY as well. Unfortunately, the "value" is not what it once was as the DIY upsurge of recent years has seen the price of old modules etc jump quite a bit. A shame, but still even at current prices you could get "value" - i.e if the original unit was a quality piece of gear, there's every chance the racked up version could be just as good. But the advantage of this approach is you get to proudly proclaim X brandname as being present in your studio, for what that is worth.

I guess at the end of the day with DIY it's a bit of a case of "suck it and see" - both quality and sound can vary from one unit to the other, depending on the maker's skill and the parts used. The downside with DIY is that there isn't exactly a second hand market for your work (unless you just pass your GSSL clone off as an authentic SSL unit, as some arseholes like to do).

Dammit - rambling again!