Fix 106

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Fix 106

Postby rachelp » Tue May 26, 2009 11:18 pm

I don't own a 106, but I know a lot of them are starting to die.

Someone online has finally come up with a solution (sic), that appears to work
rather well.

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2009/03 ... 0017a.html

Hopefully it will help all the 106 owners out there....


Fascinating!


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Re: Fix 106

Postby tweakeasy » Wed May 27, 2009 12:07 am

rachelp wrote:I don't own a 106, but I know a lot of them are starting to die.

Someone online has finally come up with a solution (sic), that appears to work
rather well.

http://matrixsynth.blogspot.com/2009/03 ... 0017a.html

Hopefully it will help all the 106 owners out there....


Fascinating!


rachel


My 106 appears to be dying the chip-death (still need to call up Mr Steve Jones about that!), so I found that very interesting. Thanks!

Regards

Michael
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Postby Bent my VU » Wed May 27, 2009 11:50 am

that's really wierd but also very cool
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Postby tweakeasy » Wed May 27, 2009 12:02 pm

Bent my VU wrote:that's really wierd but also very cool


Hope it doesn't put Analogue Renaissance out of business though, he's put a LOT of effort into his clones.

Still, if I can avoid buying clones and salvage my old ones, I will!
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Postby Sammas » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:33 pm

I used a couple of AR's clones. Those things are worth every penny. Very well built and sound great. I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of my 106 rotted away around them! haha. Even at the price, I'm glad I went with the clones.
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Postby Thirteen » Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:27 pm

I fix those chips all the time, soaking then in acetone to get the coating off can sometimes revive them for a while, but it doesn't last long, you really need to repair them properly once they are open, there are several common issues in them with jump tracks, metal migration and a couple of other things. I fixed 3 of them yesterday and have 3 more to do over the weekend. I usually manage a fix on 9 out of 10 of them.
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Postby Jason Dirckze » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:48 pm

My solution was simple too... buy a 60 instead!

:)
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Postby Thirteen » Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:51 pm

Well, so far 5 out of 5 repaired chips have lasted for 4 hours with no glitches in a Juno in a warm room today, at 4 hours I call them good.
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Postby Futureman » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:44 pm

Jason Dirckze wrote:My solution was simple too... buy a 60 instead!

:)


I recon 106's suck.... ughhhh..

There.. I said it, And I feel better for it.

6's & 60's sh#t all over 106's.. no competition.
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Postby Thirteen » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:25 am

Futureman wrote:
Jason Dirckze wrote:My solution was simple too... buy a 60 instead!

:)


I recon 106's suck.... ughhhh..

There.. I said it, And I feel better for it.

6's & 60's sh#t all over 106's.. no competition.


I have a 106 and a 60 here, I will put them side by side tomorrow and see if there is a real difference....
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Postby NYMo » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:42 am

Hi there,

I've never been a real big fan of the 106 (had one for a few years) but i thought the Juno 60 was say *thicker* than the *thinner* 106 which is also a bit *plasticky*

But irrelevant to my above comment, I had fun with the 106...and thats what its all about ultimately ;-)

Cheers

N
Y
M
O
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Not too old to Rock n Roll...not too young to die !
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Postby rachelp » Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:49 pm

I used to own a Juno 6 plus I also borrowed a Juno-106 for a time. I preferred the sound of the J6 to the 106.

They both sound crap when you turn off the chorus. I had to make a choice between the Juno 6 and my PolySix when
I returned to Sydney as I could not take both, so the Juno 6 now lives with a church organist and sits on top of the pedal
harmonium I also had to leave behind.



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Meh......

Postby tweakeasy » Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:58 pm

It's acknowledged pretty much anywhere you care to look that the 60 and 6 have a "punchier" and "thicker" sound.

Who cares. No big news flash. They are different machines. I love my 106 and with other hardware can make it "punchier" and "thicker". Plus, patch memory and excellent MIDI implementation... do I see the 60's and 6's putting their hands up? Nope.

I used my 106 to control an amazing audio visual exhibition on the weekend, and it did a bang-up job. Certain sounds and frequencies needed to be completely and instantly recallable. Perfect.

This thread was for people who want to keep their 106's going, because they like them, no need to come and speak trash about another man's treasure.

Cheers
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Postby Thirteen » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:20 pm

I never really thought much of the 106 until I got one, and now I think that it is amazing, I play it more than most of my other synths, and anyone who knows me knows that there is some formidable competition here, I am not saying that it is better than other classics, but I just get so much pleasure from playing it. It is one of the few synths that sound great with no FX units after it, which is rare. I would never have an electronic music studio without a Juno 106 in it. The chorus rocks.
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Postby Thirteen » Mon Jun 08, 2009 6:56 pm

well, for me the myth is dispelled. I just set up my Juno 106 and Juno 60 side by side, Apogee converters, Dynaudio monitors. Set the controls identically, balanced the volumes exactly and then stared making patches on both. I would make a patch on one, set the controls the same on the other and play them alternately while tweaking the controls to make the sounds match as closely as possible. In every instance, once I got the controls to match up, I played the same chord with each hand alternating between each synth with each quarter note. They sounded so close to identical that I could not tell that they were coming from 2 different machines. the only real difference that I noted was that with the sliders full up on the sub octave, the 106's sub was a lot louder than the '60's. Chorus sounds the same, filter sounds the same, basic waveforms sound the same.

I would have to regard the two synths as sonically interchangable, in fact basically identical, so any idea that the 60 is better sonically does not stand up, I think that it is just nostalgia. Having done this test I think that in fact I will sell my '60, as the 106 covers it exactly, with a smaller and lighter chassis and MIDI. Once again it proves to me that the only comparisons that count are when the contenders are together in the same room through the same system at the same time. I expected the discrete filter to sound fuller on the '60, it doesn't. The difference in sound that I can hear between the two is about the same as I would expect between two machines of the same model.

As a caveat.... What I am saying is that the two sound identical with the same control setting, obviously they will sound different as you fiddle with them due to the different scaling of some of the pots. The tone generation however as far as I can hear is no different between them.
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Re: Meh......

Postby Futureman » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:33 pm

tweakeasy wrote:This thread was for people who want to keep their 106's going, because they like them, no need to come and speak trash about another man's treasure.


Sorry tweakeasy (That is your real name isn't it?) , I didn't mean to bag out your kit.. I apologise.

Steve, you recon you could post those samples? Lets make it interesting..
I got rid of my 106 for exactly the same reason you are getting rid of your 60.. lol.

Yay.. old keboards.. we all like em.. some more than others. ;]

Look at this one I got recently... Hohner Bass keyboard, like it says on the box. Bass.

Regards
Mike




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Postby tweakeasy » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:49 pm

Thirteen wrote:well, for me the myth is dispelled. I just set up my Juno 106 and Juno 60 side by side.


About time someone did this. That it was Australia's synth tech wizard doesn't do the test any harm either.

Well done Steve and thanks for sharing your results. There would be a lot of people interested in this on VSE and GS. If ever this question arises again (undoubtedly) I'll refer them to this thread with glee, and suggest they do the comparison for themselves too.

Might be a few more 60's on the market soon for all those "nostalgic" people to revel in. ;)
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Re: Meh......

Postby tweakeasy » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:59 pm

Futureman wrote:Sorry tweakeasy (That is your real name isn't it?) , I didn't mean to bag out your kit.. I apologise.

Look at this one I got recently... Hohner Bass keyboard, like it says on the box. Bass.


All good mate! My 106 is my first synth so I feel I have to defend her honour. (thou rogue) haha

That Hohner looks interesting. Rather old company that - predates Roland by, oh about 110 years. I've heard the earlier version sounded...



"thicker".

;)

Peace
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Postby Thirteen » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:14 pm

I should probably have kept my head down and said nothing, I'm sure that if my post got onto VSE or GS I will be scorned and denounced and shouted at by people who are maddened and outraged by my conclusion, and probably most of the people doing it will have never been in the same room as a Juno 106 and a Juno 60 at the same time.
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Postby electrofetish » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:30 pm

Nice work Dr J
The J6 was my first synth
I have had 2 J106's and a HS60
I was glad to see them go

I do still have the J60 and MSQ700
The J60 is my pic of all of them
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Postby tweakeasy » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:59 pm

Thirteen wrote:I should probably have kept my head down and said nothing, I'm sure that if my post got onto VSE or GS I will be scorned and denounced and shouted at by people who are maddened and outraged by my conclusion, and probably most of the people doing it will have never been in the same room as a Juno 106 and a Juno 60 at the same time.


Haha fair enough your secret's safe with me.
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Postby Futureman » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:25 pm

Hey Steve, how about some samples?

Otherwise I'm gonna start quoting Fermat's last theorem... lol.

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Postby Thirteen » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:34 pm

Futureman wrote:Hey Steve, how about some samples?

Otherwise I'm gonna start quoting Fermat's last theorem... lol.

Regards
Mike


What samples would you like to hear? A filter sweep on each machine perhaps?
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Postby Futureman » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:38 pm

Thirteen wrote:What samples would you like to hear? A filter sweep on each machine perhaps?


Yea, that'd be great.. I always thought the J60's filter had much more growl (ie, distortion / warble) while the J106's was more chirpy.

... so prenty of resonance in your samples please.
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Postby Jason Dirckze » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:36 am

The 60 is also sexier... faux wood ends! Need I say more? You can all stick your 106's and their faulty voice chips up your ying yangs ;)
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Postby Thirteen » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:41 am

Jason Dirckze wrote:The 60 is also sexier... faux wood ends! Need I say more? You can all stick your 106's and their faulty voice chips up your ying yangs ;)


I would be interested to hear your opinion of the sound files that I posted on another thread this week. I agree that faulty voice chips are a pain on the 106 (although they can be fixed), personally, as someone who has both machines, I prefer the more compact size, lower weight, MIDI and bigger bottom end of the 106. There you go, I have said it. I prefer the sound of the 106.
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Postby Futureman » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:24 am

The Arpeggiator on the 6/60 is a cracker too (none on 106).. Instant Cyndi Lauper

Sure, no MIDI... but I record as audio, so that's not a huge concern.. (MIDI would be nice tho.)

I've been pretty busy at work, so no comment on the audio shootout, but I'm looking forward to hearing it..

How do others feel about the JX3p.. I can't stand mine, but my band mate likes it's sound... cool sequencer tho.

Regards
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Postby tweakeasy » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:08 pm

Jason Dirckze wrote:The 60 is also sexier... faux wood ends! Need I say more? You can all stick your 106's and their faulty voice chips up your ying yangs ;)


And the same to you with your 60, and being that it is (needlessly) larger, it should be rather more uncomfortable to do so too. ;)

Enjoy those faux wood ends, watch the faux splinters...
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Postby beatmad » Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:18 am

Futureman wrote:The Arpeggiator on the 6/60 is a cracker too (none on 106).. Instant Cyndi Lauper

Sure, no MIDI... but I record as audio, so that's not a huge concern.. (MIDI would be nice tho.)

Regards
Mike


I'd like to hear the arpeggiator on the 60, I've heard the Jupiter 4 and that's awesome, so snappy. I use the arpeggiator on my monomachine to trigger the 106 which works alright. Definitely not as snappy as the Jupiter but a very versatile arpeggiator. On Vintage Synth Explorer it says the 60 uses a special sequencer called a JSQ-60. I'd imagine these are pretty rare. Anyone got any examples?
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Postby Jason Dirckze » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:42 am

Thirteen wrote:I would be interested to hear your opinion of the sound files that I posted on another thread this week. I agree that faulty voice chips are a pain on the 106 (although they can be fixed), personally, as someone who has both machines, I prefer the more compact size, lower weight, MIDI and bigger bottom end of the 106. There you go, I have said it. I prefer the sound of the 106.

I trust you all know I'm having a laugh...

I'm overseas working on a doco at the moment, so no access to a decent monitoring setup at the moment. I do have my Mbox mini and my 7506's but I'd love to listen to the 106/60 A/B tests through some nicer monitors.

My 60 is not without it's problems anyway, been having a strange problem for a couple years. The 60 needs to literally be turned on for a couple days before it starts behaving. At this point in time all my synths are packed away in their hard cases, I'm traveling too much for work. We're driving to Amsterdam tomorrow to film in a brothel.
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