Roland Juno 106 Vs Juno 60 shootout.

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Postby Sheer Noise » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:11 pm

sold my VP-330 to a guy in Ireland last year... haven't missed it, but it was an awesome synth, although as Rachel says, very much a one-trick pony!

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Postby tweakeasy » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:13 pm

rachelp wrote:It is very much a one trick pony, but it is a good trick.

It is a player's synth - there is a knack to making it sound good because of the envelope
strategy, otherwise your blissful scene is marred by cuttoff decays and jarring chords!
I don't even use the vocoder much though - I love the syn-vox and string lushness.


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Lovely. I've never heard one in real life but the youtube demos show it to be a unique machine. I have a project where I'm specifically requiring a vocoder, but looking for something quite below the price range of the VP... They go for very large sums. (eBay or not).

As with so much other gear: one day! :)
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Postby Sheer Noise » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:18 pm

I got $2500 for mine, and he offered me an additional $250 to make sure it was crated up right for shipping, which it was. I was pretty happy with that, especially seeing as it had been lying in my garage untouched for about 8 years after I paid $40 for that and another synth at a garage sale - the only expense was the couple of hundred or so it cost to get Steve to bring it back into good running order!
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Postby tweakeasy » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:01 am

Sheer Noise wrote:I got $2500 for mine, and he offered me an additional $250 to make sure it was crated up right for shipping, which it was. I was pretty happy with that, especially seeing as it had been lying in my garage untouched for about 8 years after I paid $40 for that and another synth at a garage sale - the only expense was the couple of hundred or so it cost to get Steve to bring it back into good running order!


Excuse me while I look for some other wounds for you to pour vinegar into.
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Postby rick » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:03 am

Sheer Noise wrote:I got $2500 for mine, and he offered me an additional $250 to make sure it was crated up right for shipping, which it was. I was pretty happy with that, especially seeing as it had been lying in my garage untouched for about 8 years after I paid $40 for that and another synth at a garage sale - the only expense was the couple of hundred or so it cost to get Steve to bring it back into good running order!



hey dave were is my drink for hosting the online barbie Q that made such a thing possible ?

dont worry i dont drink :)
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Postby Futureman » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:31 am

NYMo wrote:Hi there,

Futureman...the only one on your list I haven't had is the 2002 and I ALWAYS wanted one of them !



The P2002 is instant Justice / Daft Punk.. grainy and aliasing and def not dull.. the filter screams if you want it to..
It sure as hell don't sound like my other samplers.

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Postby ChrisW » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:23 am

tweakeasy wrote: I have a project where I'm specifically requiring a vocoder, but looking for something quite below the price range of the VP...


Incidentally I mentioned the cheap price for used DP4 (and DP2) fx boxes in another thread.
The DP4 has quite an effective vocoder.
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Postby tweakeasy » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:49 am

ChrisW wrote:
tweakeasy wrote: I have a project where I'm specifically requiring a vocoder, but looking for something quite below the price range of the VP...


Incidentally I mentioned the cheap price for used DP4 (and DP2) fx boxes in another thread.
The DP4 has quite an effective vocoder.


You may now add 'Psychic' to your repertoire!
After recent talk on here of the great value for money of a DP-4 I was reading up on them last night and discovered that they have a vocoder section. I just logged in to ask if anyone rated the vocoder of the DP-4, and there was your comment above. :)

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Postby Thirteen » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:54 am

I think that the Access Virus's have a vocoder as well... To my shame I have owned a Virus Indigo 2 for several years, and I still don't know for sure if it has a vocoder, but someone told me that it does.... I never got into vocoders, to me they seem like a gag you can only use once on your album.
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Postby ChrisW » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:14 am

Regarding the DP4 vocoder.
I used it a few times.
I never got really clear annunciation out of it, but then I never spent a while tweaking the parameters to improve it's performance.
It absolutely has the classic vocoder vibe, but I'm not sure it can match the dedicated units, especially the high end ones.
There may even be a better performing software vocoder these days.
But anyway, the vocoder effect is one of many great sounding pre-sets in the DP4 package.
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Postby Futureman » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:46 am

I used to use my DP4's vocoder all the time until I got some dedicated hardware ones..

It's ok.. better than some.. but if you are using it as a vocoder, it'll take up all 4 of it's engines..
I found a sneaky way of making it use just 2 engines, saving the other 2 for FX.. this is not mentioned in the manual??

I'm guessing you didn't see the MAM vocoder in Australia then? I'm surprised Ryan (ElectroFetish) isn't here to brag about it.. I would have pointed it out, but then he's a mate and mates come before random people on the internet right?
(More salt in wounds?)

I know of someone selling their Electrix Factory vocoder.. I've never had any experience with them, so I really don't know how good they are. I can rattle their cage if you are interested?

As for vocoders being a one trick pony/Gimmick... hell yea! I agree, but then again, what about Flange? Autotune? Bit crunching? etc..
They might be gimmicky, but everything in moderation, you don't have to pretend your in Kraftwerk and sing "Machine Machine Machine"
I like the fact that vocoder is like two sounds that got married and had a baby.. vocodering is their offspring... it's not just for vox & synth.. great on other things like drums and synths, samples and white noise..

Anyway, I'm a fan and have been since the first Battle Star Galactiga. (And the original Lipps Inc funky town)

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Postby rachelp » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:52 am

I like vocoders a lot too - they provide a lot of texture. As long as you leave space for them
and don't push them too far up front they sound great. A thing I really like is where the vocoder is
almost subliminal behindthe main vocal instead of a double track and so on. I am lousy singer
and not very well coordinated so I do not use the VP-330 vox a lot but I love the string/synth/vox
sounds as I said!


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Postby tweakeasy » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:12 pm

Futureman wrote:I used to use my DP4's vocoder all the time until I got some dedicated hardware ones..

It's ok.. better than some.. but if you are using it as a vocoder, it'll take up all 4 of it's engines..
I found a sneaky way of making it use just 2 engines, saving the other 2 for FX.. this is not mentioned in the manual??

I'm guessing you didn't see the MAM vocoder in Australia then? I'm surprised Ryan (ElectroFetish) isn't here to brag about it.. I would have pointed it out, but then he's a mate and mates come before random people on the internet right?
(More salt in wounds?)

I know of someone selling their Electrix Factory vocoder.. I've never had any experience with them, so I really don't know how good they are. I can rattle their cage if you are interested?

As for vocoders being a one trick pony/Gimmick... hell yea! I agree, but then again, what about Flange? Autotune? Bit crunching? etc..
They might be gimmicky, but everything in moderation, you don't have to pretend your in Kraftwerk and sing "Machine Machine Machine"
I like the fact that vocoder is like two sounds that got married and had a baby.. vocodering is their offspring... it's not just for vox & synth.. great on other things like drums and synths, samples and white noise..

Anyway, I'm a fan and have been since the first Battle Star Galactiga. (And the original Lipps Inc funky town)

Regards
Mike


Yes I was watching that VF-11 from day one but I'm still recovering financially from my BLUE Cactus purchase, hence looking for a cheaper option whilst getting impatient... Bad thing to do with a gear-craving me thinks.

I really don't want a "passable, barely" vocoder though, so I think I'll hold out a couple of months and get a nice dedicated analogue weapon. I've heard enough SVC-350 demos and usage in tracks now to assuage any doubts placed in my mind by others. There's an EMS 2000 on the bay allegedly previously owned by Peter Baumann of Tangerine Dream, about to go for a packet (not that I'm considering it just pointing it out for interests sake). The selling point might be a bit gimmicky but I reckon these machines used thoughtfully are anything but. Closest thing to getting inside a synth in a way, fusing the organic with the synthetic and other such wanky sounding (but true) phrases. :)
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Postby ChrisW » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:32 pm

I'm sure an EMS Vocoder would be great, but the letters E..M..S.. are going to add several $$ to the price.

And I must agree with the above, I've mostly used vocoding as neat effect on drums.
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Postby innerclock » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:40 pm

Vocoders are nice as a unique Send/Return effect from a mixing board too for any sources really. Aux 1 send to the Carrier Input, Aux 2 Send to the Modulator Input - mix and blend drums, guitar, bass, delay returns, reverb returns to either carrier or modulator and bring the results back in the mix for some beautiful atmospherics....:) With the VP or Vintage units just tape down some keys in the scale that suits the track, with newer Midi ones - V-Synth etc - lock up a sequencer to the track or send midi direct from the DAW (fix the latency of course!) and then program up a part/chords to follow.

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Postby electrofetish » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:57 pm

Futureman wrote:
I'm guessing you didn't see the MAM vocoder in Australia then? I'm surprised Ryan (ElectroFetish) isn't here to brag about it.. I would have pointed it out, but then he's a mate and mates come before random people on the internet right?
(More salt in wounds?)
Mike


Yes Mike thanks for keeping quiet cheque is in the mail
Just waiting for the MAM to arrive .....
I know the DP4 vocoder very well as I use two, the vocoder is ok..but it also has so much to do with the carrier sound as well
I also use a Korg VC-10, for the more vintage feel, it takes a bit more to sound good but I like it
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Postby innerclock » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:46 pm

Hi Ryan - off this topic but do you have any loose MC-202s in your collection - looking for one for some testing purposes.......?

Hope u r well....

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Postby Thirteen » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:15 pm

innerclock wrote:Hi Ryan - off this topic but do you have any loose MC-202s in your collection - looking for one for some testing purposes.......?

Hope u r well....

D.


Don't forget I have a few MC-500's here too.
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Postby innerclock » Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:16 am

Hey - if you like weird vocoders and want something a little different you can always keep an eye out for an ElectroLarynx:-

http://www.griffinlab.com/Products/Elec ... isons.html

They all usually run a fixed pitch but I think someone clever could get a CV Mod Input to work no problem.....:)

They are expensive new but they come up secondhand now and again.

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Postby tweakeasy » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:03 am

innerclock wrote:Hey - if you like weird vocoders and want something a little different you can always keep an eye out for an ElectroLarynx:-

http://www.griffinlab.com/Products/Elec ... isons.html

They all usually run a fixed pitch but I think someone clever could get a CV Mod Input to work no problem.....:)

They are expensive new but they come up secondhand now and again.

D.


Interesting, but they sound like someone sucking words backwards through their throat. Didn't like the poor articulation. Can see how they'd be great for people post throat-cancer op though!

Can you point me in the direction of anyone's music which has featured one?

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Postby electrofetish » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:11 pm

innerclock wrote:Hey - if you like weird vocoders and want something a little different you can always keep an eye out for an ElectroLarynx:-

http://www.griffinlab.com/Products/Elec ... isons.html

They all usually run a fixed pitch but I think someone clever could get a CV Mod Input to work no problem.....:)

They are expensive new but they come up secondhand now and again.

D.



ElectroLarynx wooooooooooooooooooould be a great adddddddition to my crazy kit
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Postby a.d.a.m. baby » Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:55 am

re vocoders: I've used the Electrix Warp Factory live, and there is a slight lag in the modulator signal that can be quite off-putting (Maybe due to it being digital not analogue? - not sure). A workaround for this is to let some tops bleed thru from the vocal mic, so the sibilance is heard first, seems to make it less noticeable, and certainly easier to "sing" in time with the track.

re the original topic:
excuse me if this has been posted, but a comparison of the chips used in these synths can be seen here
http://analog.no/cms/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=60

I've often had my JP8 and JX-3P running on a track, and was always amazed at how these two could sound so similar. Looking at the table above suggests it may have have something to do with the similar VCO and VCF circuits.
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Postby electrofetish » Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:46 am

a.d.a.m. baby wrote:re vocoders: I've used the Electrix Warp Factory live, and there is a slight lag in the modulator signal that can be quite off-putting (Maybe due to it being digital not analogue? - not sure). A workaround for this is to let some tops bleed thru from the vocal mic, so the sibilance is heard first, seems to make it less noticeable, and certainly easier to "sing" in time with the track.

re the original topic:
excuse me if this has been posted, but a comparison of the chips used in these synths can be seen here
http://analog.no/cms/index.php?option=c ... &Itemid=60

I've often had my JP8 and JX-3P running on a track, and was always amazed at how these two could sound so similar. Looking at the table above suggests it may have have something to do with the similar VCO and VCF circuits.


I liked the page on the envelope stuff too on the link
Good to have you around Adam!

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Postby a.d.a.m. baby » Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:46 pm

Cheers for the welcome Ryan!
This is a great resource - lotsa cluey people 'round here, I'm sure I'll learn a lot!
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Postby Chris H » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:08 pm

What is a Juno 106 aprox worth these days?
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Postby jkhuri44 » Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:56 pm

^ its worth giving to me :-) !!
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Postby Chris H » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:16 pm

jkhuri44 wrote:^ its worth giving to me :-) !!


.....haven't got it yet. :). Just want to know how much should i expect to pay?
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Postby Thirteen » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:04 pm

Chris H wrote:What is a Juno 106 aprox worth these days?


A nice one all working would probably fetch $600 - $700 I think, which to me is pretty undervalued.
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Postby rachelp » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:16 pm

There is also the HS60 which is the "home" version of the 106. It is exactly a 106
but has speakers built in which makes it kind of "home" style, I guess. Sometimes you
get them cheap sold as a "home organ" or "electronic keyboard" a'la casio.


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Postby Chris H » Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:07 pm

Ok thanks. That giver me a good idea.
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