How to get the guitar to "speak"

[heathen]

Get some old Dann Huff (and newer stuff) into ya for guitar tones - he's a killer player..

Hmmmmmmm, just checked him, not really my thing.

This will still be modern in 30 years if anyone ever learns how to use a guitar better, still not my fav tone but definitely the best guitarist I've ever seen live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw74sDWPH7U

Yeh, he's a freak. I saw him at Coogee Bay and wanted to chop off my fingers after. He makes it effortless. His band was great too.

Mmmmmmm Billy Sheehan on bass, I was there, actually will always be at any Vai gig in Sydney no matter what.

You need the Vai 10- hour workout, heh, hmmm I made it about 5 hours once.

Check this too for tone, pity Eric did'nt play so good in Sydney, he looked really crook, must have drank some Sydney tap water.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCRhlsILuQo

[TimS]

Get some old Dann Huff (and newer stuff) into ya for guitar tones - he's a killer player..

Hmmmmmmm, just checked him, not really my thing.

This will still be modern in 30 years if anyone ever learns how to use a guitar better, still not my fav tone but definitely the best guitarist I've ever seen live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw74sDWPH7U

Heath,
have a listen to this - Dann does more country stuff these days - he's a producer in Nashville but still plays.
This is from his days when he was in Giant..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTI0bNsD5mo

[TimS]

something more melodic from Huff - awesome layering (and solo!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr77FFC4Ubc&feature=fvw

[Simon B]

interesting replies....

for me guitar tones are something I am obsessed with.

as I write this I am sitting in a room with 9 amps,and 7 guitars and there is another 10 amps in another room. and I have started getting my arse into gear and getting a webpage underway and start some advertising on the reamp studio

a big lesson for me was, I was reamping some tracks, and I got a cd on the sounds they were chasing. I spent 2 days trying every amp and mic combination I just couldnt get it close. the sounds I ended up agreeing on were a badcat, and a hiwatt with a pedal..... I was really annoyed at the fact the sound came from a pedal, it went against everything I stood for, valve saturation should kick the ass of a pedal.. but it was the closest I could get it to the sounds.

things I have found are....

guitarists are quite pretentious.

Some guitarists will not even try an amp because of the maker, not whether it its best sound for the song, and the 2 most common brands they will not try are mesa or marshall, because they are biased one over the other.

amps I have put NOS tubes in and biased a little differently, and chasing the little 1%er's in better dont barely get noticed unless they are guitar geeks like me.

Tone is in the fingers, if you go chasing your favourties artist setup, exactly and plug in, it may sound similar but it wont make you sound like them, and a classic example of this is I know a guy that was support for Van halen and got to play through the brown sound, you know what he sounded like him playing through Eddies rig, he didnt sound like Eddie.

some guitarist when choosing their dream amp play mostly lead through it when they are trying it out.... which is cool but I would figure the rhythm sound be more important because it is played for the majority of the song.

nearly everyone can agree on whats a good clean sound, but dirty sounds everyone is always chasing, and there is no agreeing on what hi gain is.

in about 2 months I am going to try and arrange to do a hi gain shoot out, using video and studio mics and reamp the same track through the amps so the comparison is as fair as possible.

less gain and double tracking is beefier for me.

my suggestion on getting good guitar sounds are to get a band and sit in rehearsal or bring up a mix and then chase the guitar sounds, the human ear is sensitive to high and lows so when listening to an amp on its the human ear likes the amp the most with the rock n roll smile. boosted bass and treble.... in a band situation the guitar is lost because it is caught in the bass and cymbals.... so for a band setting chasing the sounds when the band is in the room is best, and then find a way to let it compliment the vocals, or if you hate the singer drown them out

for me there are 2 guitar products that nearly cover everything..

that is the mi audio revelation amplifier, made in sydney actually

and the fractal axe fx.

so here is how I stand on guitar sounds.
when chasing guitar tones it is very easy to get caught up in other things, there are just too many options nowadays. make it sound good then stop.

now to answer your questions.

muddy could be settings, try less bottom end and less gain. play with the mids and treble
I would suggest going guitar > gt8 > di> amplitube

I hope this helps

Cheers Simon

[heathen]

Time to burn was good, he's not bad. He's not ugly enough though.

I prefer these guys. :) It's brutal! Also I guess I just really like Marshalls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMzWeV4Xf9A

[heathen]

as I write this I am sitting in a room with 9 amps,and 7 guitars and there is another 10 amps in another room.

Yes I agree Simon that is obsessed, but a good obsession. :)

[Simon B]

as I write this I am sitting in a room with 9 amps,and 7 guitars and there is another 10 amps in another room.

Yes I agree Simon that is obsessed, but a good obsession. :)

I just received a call, I have another amp on the way it just got finished tonight.


I have 2 more on order, and there is one going in the states that I have my eye on for an absolute steal. that will slow it down for a bit, and then more will come

[Matthew Dawson]

TimS wrote:
Get some old Dann Huff (and newer stuff) into ya for guitar tones - he's a killer player..



Hmmmmmmm, just checked him, not really my thing.

This will still be modern in 30 years if anyone ever learns how to use a guitar better, still not my fav tone but definitely the best guitarist I've ever seen live.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw74sDWPH7U

Great discussion guys.

I checked out the Steve Vai link (above) and it immediately reminded me of Stevie Ray Vaughan's version of Little Wing from his 'The Sky is Crying' album. I reckon Vai is going for a SRV kind of vibe ...

But although my reaction to Vai was "wow" in terms of technique ... it just doesn't 'move' me in the way that SRV does... and that is about the tone and the 'touch'.

SRV's tone on this track is my absolute favourite of all time - a Strat and a Fender twin - that's it. On the album you can even hear the amp humming in the background ...

That's guitar tone heaven for me ... it doesn't get any better.

you can here it on YouTube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGho1QZO4Us

:)

Matthew

[heathen]

Stevie Ray, yeah he is great, another fav for sure, will check the vid a bit later.


Seeing Vai live the first time was an incredible experience (Selinas), Mike Keneally was on keyboards and guitar also, was like a musical circus, guitars being thrown to the guitar tech and new guits being thrown straight back, Keneally was doing keyboard and guitar solos simultaneously, amazing.

Then the G3 concert was really mellow, Vai just held back and played his set, I think he did'nt want to upstage Satriani as I guess he was headlining. Though I left halfway through Satch's set as it was pretty bad, out of tune and his timing was awful. John Petrucci was excellent but a bit boring like Malmsteen.

One guitarist I'd like to see live is Gary Moore, really like his style and sound too.

[tunetown]

interesting replies....

for me guitar tones are something I am obsessed with.

as I write this I am sitting in a room with 9 amps,and 7 guitars and there is another 10 amps in another room. and I have started getting my arse into gear and getting a webpage underway and start some advertising on the reamp studio

a big lesson for me was, I was reamping some tracks, and I got a cd on the sounds they were chasing. I spent 2 days trying every amp and mic combination I just couldnt get it close. the sounds I ended up agreeing on were a badcat, and a hiwatt with a pedal..... I was really annoyed at the fact the sound came from a pedal, it went against everything I stood for, valve saturation should kick the ass of a pedal.. but it was the closest I could get it to the sounds.

things I have found are....

guitarists are quite pretentious.

Some guitarists will not even try an amp because of the maker, not whether it its best sound for the song, and the 2 most common brands they will not try are mesa or marshall, because they are biased one over the other.

amps I have put NOS tubes in and biased a little differently, and chasing the little 1%er's in better dont barely get noticed unless they are guitar geeks like me.

Tone is in the fingers, if you go chasing your favourties artist setup, exactly and plug in, it may sound similar but it wont make you sound like them, and a classic example of this is I know a guy that was support for Van halen and got to play through the brown sound, you know what he sounded like him playing through Eddies rig, he didnt sound like Eddie.

some guitarist when choosing their dream amp play mostly lead through it when they are trying it out.... which is cool but I would figure the rhythm sound be more important because it is played for the majority of the song.

nearly everyone can agree on whats a good clean sound, but dirty sounds everyone is always chasing, and there is no agreeing on what hi gain is.

in about 2 months I am going to try and arrange to do a hi gain shoot out, using video and studio mics and reamp the same track through the amps so the comparison is as fair as possible.

less gain and double tracking is beefier for me.

my suggestion on getting good guitar sounds are to get a band and sit in rehearsal or bring up a mix and then chase the guitar sounds, the human ear is sensitive to high and lows so when listening to an amp on its the human ear likes the amp the most with the rock n roll smile. boosted bass and treble.... in a band situation the guitar is lost because it is caught in the bass and cymbals.... so for a band setting chasing the sounds when the band is in the room is best, and then find a way to let it compliment the vocals, or if you hate the singer drown them out

for me there are 2 guitar products that nearly cover everything..

that is the mi audio revelation amplifier, made in sydney actually

and the fractal axe fx.

so here is how I stand on guitar sounds.
when chasing guitar tones it is very easy to get caught up in other things, there are just too many options nowadays. make it sound good then stop.

now to answer your questions.

muddy could be settings, try less bottom end and less gain. play with the mids and treble
I would suggest going guitar > gt8 > di> amplitube

I hope this helps

Cheers Simon

Excellent post Simon. I'd love to see your collection someday.

Cheers

[TimS]

Time to burn was good, he's not bad. He's not ugly enough though.

I prefer these guys. :) It's brutal! Also I guess I just really like Marshalls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMzWeV4Xf9A

heath,
they sound like rectum-friers more than marshalls!!

if we are talking about top players, i'd have to list my fav's as the following
Steve Lukather
David Gilmour
Michael Landau
Dann Huff
Neal Schon
Michael Thompson
Gary Moore
Walter Becker
Keith Urban
Brad Paisley
Ian Moss

[HA_DA_JA]

I will admit to it - I was an Amy Grant listener.
Dan Huff was always the reason I bought here earlier albums.
When she bought out the heavier album (at the time) I think it was called "unguarded" that was when he really started to shine for me and then he dropped of the radar for me.
Not too sure if he made it on any Michael W Smith albumns.

[TimS]

I will admit to it - I was an Amy Grant listener.
Dan Huff was always the reason I bought here earlier albums.
When she bought out the heavier album (at the time) I think it was called "unguarded" that was when he really started to shine for me and then he dropped of the radar for me.
Not too sure if he made it on any Michael W Smith albumns.

Yes, he played on several Michael W Smith albums..
He does quite a bit of Christian music these days, as well as producing..

[chris p]

To return to the thread topic, I tend to agree that tone is first and foremost, in the fingers of the player (combination of talent and technique), in the amp, the pickups and in the wood, in that order.

To get each string to speak in a power chord though is mostly technique (assuming pickup and amps of sufficiently quality). A slight arpeggio as you strum (ritardando, yes?) does wonders for getting more clarity from distorted chords.

[Kurt]

You don't say how much distortion you're chasing...

One of my favourite metal guitar sounds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFoA9vcolLI
On their early albums double tracked, once with a 5150, once with a Marshall. These days they use pods apparently (as in this recording)

Someone suggested the Hughs and Kettner red box, it may be sacriligious but I reckon the be!@#$%^& GI100 sounds better.

[TimS]

You don't say how much distortion you're chasing...

One of my favourite metal guitar sounds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFoA9vcolLI
On their early albums double tracked, once with a 5150, once with a Marshall. These days they use pods apparently (as in this recording)

Someone suggested the Hughs and Kettner red box, it may be sacriligious but I reckon the be!@#$%^& GI100 sounds better.

I used a H&K Red Box cab sim live for about 17yrs.. Wasnt bad and gave consistent tones/sounds..
It was good, but the DMC Cabtone is better, and then even better, the Palmer speaker sim/load box's (I have the PDI-03 in my rack now)..

[mfdu]

heres a technique which thse who know me would know is not favoured. but its a technique.

track each string of the chord seperately. it's a John5 (Maralyn Manson) type of thing. some may feel such a technique may impeed the spontenaity and 'live-ness' of a recording. but if you're chasing THAT much distortion or mega-fast chicken-pickin or whatever, it may work for you.
disclaimer - i wouldnt touch this with a barge pole if you paid me in crack.


oops. i saw a reference to Amy Grant. *backs away slowly*

[walding]

heres a technique which thse who know me would know is not favoured. but its a technique.

track each string of the chord seperately. it's a John5 (Maralyn Manson) type of thing. some may feel such a technique may impeed the spontenaity and 'live-ness' of a recording. but if you're chasing THAT much distortion or mega-fast chicken-pickin or whatever, it may work for you.
disclaimer - i wouldnt touch this with a barge pole if you paid me in crack.


oops. i saw a reference to Amy Grant. *backs away slowly*

WHat about trillions of dollars? :D

[mfdu]

well d'er - of course i'd do it for a trillion. i'm not THAT picky.
and i'd do it happily, knowing that my artistic ideals can be damned 'cause i'm filthy stinking rich

(of course, for that kind of pay, i'd multitrack the whole enchillada to tape.)





(hell, for that kind of pay, i'd blow a hobo)






(what am i saying? i'd blow a hobo for $10 and a slap on the arse)

[tunetown]

:-)

I've had some Hobo blow, but that was different.

[TimS]

iced vovo's, reaming, hobo's blowing - OMG, its getting worse!!!

[jithknot]

lol how did this thread go from guitar tone to blowing hobo's.
well back to the main topic, i tried lowering the gain on my guitar and boosting the mids a bit, but theres not enough gain for my liking, so im trying to do this other thing where i would record one with low gain to bring out the notes and another where theres more gain for my liking, and blend em together.
will this give me a really tight and gainy sound at the same time make the notes ring??? im not sure

btw im using an ibanez UV777 for this recording, i didnt mention that in the previous threads.

[TimS]

When you say you turned the gain back and boosted the mids, was that in an amp or on your GT8??
If the pickups are hot outputs (not sure what yours are), they will drive your amp/input more as well.
If its your GT8, it probably wont make much difference, as is its digitally reproduced gain.
An amp with good gain stages and nice valves/tubes will respond much better to changes made at the guitar or pedal stages (even in just plugging into the amp and dailing back gain)..
Digital is not your friend as much when it comes to gain stages and lower gain cool sounds..
Beg borrow a good quality amp and try it.. it WILL be worth it..

[jithknot]

neither. amplitube plugins, i could assign 2 tracks with different settings.

[Kurt]

That's exactly how I did most of the guitars on my band's album..

One track using our "live sounds" another using less gain and flatter eq settings. Two mics on the cab, so I ended up with 8 tracks of rhythm guitars.

http://myspace/futilitycanberra if you want to check it out.

I've also done this live on a couple of local rock bands, kind of.. DI the guitar before the amp and blend that with a mic or GI100 after the amp. Nice clean definition of notes with the fuzz of a big muff as well.

lol how did this thread go from guitar tone to blowing hobo's.
well back to the main topic, i tried lowering the gain on my guitar and boosting the mids a bit, but theres not enough gain for my liking, so im trying to do this other thing where i would record one with low gain to bring out the notes and another where theres more gain for my liking, and blend em together.
will this give me a really tight and gainy sound at the same time make the notes ring??? im not sure

btw im using an ibanez UV777 for this recording, i didnt mention that in the previous threads.

[TimS]

neither. amplitube plugins, i could assign 2 tracks with different settings.

still digital emulations..

[Kurt]

Speaking of DI's, you can always record your amp sound and a DI track then run it though Amplitube or similar. Then you can try lots of different sounds 'til you get one that sits in the mix better/clearer.

Not allowed to edit posts?!

[Mark Bassett]

You can edit posts only if the post you want to edit is the last post.

[Chris H]

Sort of reminds me of the joke.....

"how many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb?"

[Gian]

Sort of reminds me of the joke.....

"how many guitarists does it take to change a light bulb?"

How many?