Thoughts on things 303

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Thoughts on things 303

Postby electrofetish » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:59 pm

OK. I just watched a 303 in Sydney finish for over 3k on ebay!

I own one, I have had many of them over the years
I do remember chaining 5 of them once
I just cannot understand the price this has just finished at

comments?
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Postby Thirteen » Sun Mar 02, 2008 6:47 pm

I never thought I would see one go that high, I doubted people's sanity when they hit $2000, I remember working in a music store in the 80's when you couldn't give them away. I am curious as to what a 303 can do that a brand new Moog Voyager couldn't for the same amount. I repair a lot of 303's, so I know very well what they sound like, they do have a great sound, but at this price it is 1 out of 10 as far as bang for buck goes. Maybe I am just envious that someone can actually afford to just drop three grand on a piece of silver plastic :-)
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Postby Ausrock » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:42 pm

The only 303 I'm experienced with makes a bloody loud "bang" and would blow a fookin' great hole in a Voyager :-)
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Postby rachelp » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:04 pm

I have an MC-202. I bought it for $80 at a run out the 80's. It is nothing like a 303 but at the same time it is everything like a 303.
Did you know the MC-202 was the worst selling product Roland ever made?

I was offered a 606 & 303 for $200 each when I lived in the outback. I played with them for a few weeks and gave them back.

I didn't know about that acid sound at that time and was just using it to play a bassline. Anyway, I want something Future Retro now,
since the 303 is way overpriced for a plastic box not much different to its poor cousin 606.


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Postby jkhuri44 » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:31 pm

yeah, 303 is like a cult item...a "vintage item"...

i guess....people think that spending 3K on a reallly old redundant machine makes there music better...u could come up with the same stuff on Cubase with a 303 VST, and have a grid to work on, and midi plugins......hmmmm....

some people think the touch of roland buttons is worth that much..hehe

that said, popular electronic music is severly "safe"..alot of the popular stuff STILL uses 909's and what not...same goes for the 303....its so classic its become part of what the genre actually is....
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Postby innerclock » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:48 pm

Hiya R,

Hope all goes well!

Never had a 303 but keen to know how she stands on my Litmus test:

http://web.webhost4life.com/innerclock/ ... ge&name=34

Any chance you can run a sequence of repeating 1/4 notes at roughly 120 BPM and flip me the numbers?

Maybe we need to hook up for a real coffee...?

best - David.
www.innerclocksystems.com
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Postby Chinagraf » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:48 pm

I still remember being 14 and sitting with my best friend/next door neighbour, who was a drummer. We were trying to use his 303 to play basslines so we could jam KISS songs. Ever heard "Love Gun" or "Sure know somethin" basslines played on a 303? Not pretty. So we chucked it somewhere. I wonder if he still has it in a cupboard...
Mind you, the hardcore acid music crowd are still convinced that nothing works for their music style other than a 303. Maybe they're right, I dunno. I gave up acid years ago. But seeing a 303 going for that much gives me hope. Hope that I would never pay stupid money for something I could never use. I think I have a gear problem, but when I see people paying that for a 303 I realize I don't have a gear problem, it's only a little tick... and should be treatable with medication.
I do agree I haven't heard any emulators A/B'd with the real thing that actually sounded exactly the same. There is always a slight difference somewhere. Still it's not a difference I would pay 3 K for.
Innerclock's question is an interesting one, I don't know what the 303 used as it's internal source, but I suspect it would not be dead on. But then maybe that is one of the differences that the acid heads swear they can hear. It's always the inherant 'faults' of old gear that seem to give it's character.
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Postby heathen » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:41 pm

Geez hope the yamaha rs 7000 does that. I'd like to get back what I paid for it. Anyone who paid that much a 303 is bloody insane. Maybe I better start buying up Alesis 3630's.
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Postby rachelp » Mon Mar 03, 2008 6:40 pm

The 303 definitely does have a swing to it. So does the 606. And the 707.
I note my 606 sounds great when it is freewheeling on it's own clock but it becomes a little more wooden
on DIN sync - still sounds OK though.

But the sequencer in the 303 is definitly part of its mojo - it really does lope along.

I think that is why I never bothered with a 303 clone - it is nothing but a boring mono synth without the
sequencer. Apparently the x0xbox gang got the 303 sequencer ROMS but I do not know about the timing.


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Postby Kris » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:12 pm

The 303 is the only synth I have been tempted to buy....being a non-synth type of guy. It is very cool. They come up on ebay every know and then. Usually around 2-3k usd.
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Postby harry » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:28 pm

The appeal to this little box for me is in it's non resonance bass sound - tight and snappy - i think the accent circuit gives it its magic.
You don't hear people talk about this sound very often (people always tend to go on about the acid sound) but there is nothing that comes close to its muted bass sound it is so tight and funky..... honestly if i had the cash i would do it..... after i bagged an oberheim obx8 and perhaps a 808/909.

And oh yeah - my story of the 303 that got away goes like this: I went and travelled greece a few years back (parents neck of the woods)...

anyway, being a trading post freak (before ebay) i had it in my mind that i would find some seriously cool stuff there (greeks generally like having new stuff so old = crap) - i secretly hoped that i would find a Farfisa VIP and an "elka Synthex" cheap and neglected - Italy is pretty close (where those machines came from)

I scoured the papers there and found a 303 for about $200 (in 2001)... needless to say i got there 30mins too late - the guy couldn't understand why i didn't want his R8 drum machine that was also for sale..... oh well...

my ultimate stupidity though was leaving a near mint 1970 strat there for $1500..... (ran out of money at that stage - should have called home)
it was even olympic white - (not to mention - im a hendrix freak).....

still - i know some techno / psy trance heads that have the whole roland 0 series in doubles and triples, when i need a 303 i could always get em to bring the machine over and "program" it for me.... haha
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Postby Jason Dirckze » Tue Mar 04, 2008 11:57 am

The prices are indeed reaching the point of stupidity, but the appeal there is the same as the appeal of vintage mics, pres, compressors and channel strips in the engineering world. You'd happily pay up to $3k for a vintage Neumann, same thing with these cats and their 303's.

I've given up on ever owning an original 303, I put myself on the waiting list for one of ladyada's x0xb0x kits. This way you get to build your own 303 too, not just buy one.
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Postby rachelp » Tue Mar 04, 2008 1:52 pm

I think I would rather opt for a Future Retro Revolution, 777 or Mobius. They have lots of CV/gate trigger and sync possibilities
and I can have one of each for the cost of a 303!


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Postby electrofetish » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:36 pm

I knew this would be like pouring gas on the fire :D

I put a cv/gate out on mine to take advantage of the sequencer
it is running my sh7, it really is a nice mix

The 202 suffers from a bug, if controlling it from another synth via cv/gate, the cv/gate pulse is routed through the
internal step sequencer first.....thus a big lag in time ( cue innerclock systems )!!

I have also modded one of my 202's to bypass the internal step sequencer, it really is fun to have stereo 202's
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Postby electrofetish » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:50 pm

innerclock wrote:Hiya R,

Hope all goes well!

Never had a 303 but keen to know how she stands on my Litmus test:

http://web.webhost4life.com/innerclock/ ... ge&name=34

Any chance you can run a sequence of repeating 1/4 notes at roughly 120 BPM and flip me the numbers?

Maybe we need to hook up for a real coffee...?

best - David.
www.innerclocksystems.com
\

Hello David
Have been dropping by your page regularly
It one of my favourite pages on the net.
I think a "real coffee" and a look at some of my sequencers would be a great idea

I like the litmus test, it is a great way to demonstrate who is the real iron chef!
i was speaking to Steve about doing something similar with the reaction time of the attack of various synths
Some are lightning fast and some are like driving miss daisy
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Postby electrofetish » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:04 pm

rachelp wrote:The 303 definitely does have a swing to it. So does the 606. And the 707.
I note my 606 sounds great when it is freewheeling on it's own clock but it becomes a little more wooden
on DIN sync - still sounds OK though.

But the sequencer in the 303 is definitly part of its mojo - it really does lope along.

I think that is why I never bothered with a 303 clone - it is nothing but a boring mono synth without the
sequencer. Apparently the x0xbox gang got the 303 sequencer ROMS but I do not know about the timing.


rachel


I have a swingcroniser, it is a midi/dinsync master box that adds swing to anything
I still remember the day I got it, I ran home andd got my 808/303 out and listened to them swing for the first time...ahh

I have useed the x0xb0x and didn't think to much of the sound, however the sequencer is super
I would like to have 3 of those sequencers in a rack like my doepfer maq 16/3
it was the 303 sequencer that I have always wanted.
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Postby NYMo » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:49 pm

Hi there,

BTW Electrofetish...luv the photoshopped avatar !

Cheers
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Y
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O
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Postby electrofetish » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:06 pm

NYMo wrote:Hi there,

BTW Electrofetish...luv the photoshopped avatar !

Cheers
N
Y
M
O


Hello mate
We have a mutual friend Mr Sue

What photoshopped photo
Thats me in the studio, wearing my white disco suit?
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Postby Kris » Tue Mar 04, 2008 8:42 pm

Some guys I know have a modified 303 which they used on one of their albums. It's what got me turned on to it.

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZSt ... 3&s=143460

The track is called Dream In Color. Listen out for the arpeggiating sound.... that's the 303. You can still hear it in the 30sec preview.
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Postby no-fi » Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:49 am

that 303 was a special collectors one in very good condition.
and it was a collectors price that was paid, not a musicians price.
3k is still nowhere near what you'd pay for a 303 normally... and it's pretty sure that 303 is going into a glass cabinet, not a working studio.

That said, I've been noticing ebay prices getting very very retarded lately.
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Postby electrofetish » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:19 am

no-fi wrote:that 303 was a special collectors one in very good condition.
and it was a collectors price that was paid, not a musicians price.
3k is still nowhere near what you'd pay for a 303 normally... and it's pretty sure that 303 is going into a glass cabinet, not a working studio.

That said, I've been noticing ebay prices getting very very retarded lately.


totally agree no-fi
if you want something for the mantelpiece try this
Image
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Postby Chinagraf » Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:04 pm

Awesome...external clock...
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Postby electrofetish » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:29 pm

Chinagraf wrote:Awesome...external clock...


Litmus test David?

Wonder if its midi?
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Postby no-fi » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:52 pm

electrofetish wrote:The 202 suffers from a bug, if controlling it from another synth via cv/gate, the cv/gate pulse is routed through the
internal step sequencer first.....thus a big lag in time ( cue innerclock systems )!!


I dunno if that counts as a bug. It's a design feature from its time, that makes it hard to use in a more modern context.

The MC-202 was designed to be a compositional tool - a sequencer. The synth is there for a reason, but the whole point someone would buy a 202 would be to write long linear note sequences. Otherwise, go to your favourite music shop and buy a 101! :-)

As a compositional tool, the CV/Gate in of the 202 is there so that you can enter notes into it via an external keyboard (much nicer than the 202's rubber buttons) this of course makes the 202 not respond fast to realtime external control, but that's not what the 202 was designed for....

ALSO. from memory, the 202 uses a count-up A/D converter to read the input CV - meaning that the time delay you get for each note is dependent on the note voltage... so a simple time delay offset isn't going to get your 202 perfectly lined up with everything anyway... (not that I ever measured, I just only ever used my 202 with its own sequencer, clocked off dinsync, when I had one)
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Postby no-fi » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:59 pm

electrofetish wrote:
totally agree no-fi
if you want something for the mantelpiece try this
Image


people are a bit silly with collecting stuff. I mean, whatever floats your boat, but I find it a bit upsetting when prices for things go up stupidly high and they stop being musical instruments, and become showpieces. would rather people collected things that weren't actually useful to other people... like stamps, or beer cans, or something.

the 303 has had an interesting career so far. from a bass guitar emulator not many people wanted, to an obsolete piece of garbage nobody wanted, to a specialised cult instrument, to a collectors piece.... I guess they're going to end up like 60s strats, soon enough. maybe the person who paid $3k recognised that, and are just waiting till they can sell it for 30k?
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Postby electrofetish » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:32 pm

no-fi wrote:
electrofetish wrote:The 202 suffers from a bug, if controlling it from another synth via cv/gate, the cv/gate pulse is routed through the
internal step sequencer first.....thus a big lag in time ( cue innerclock systems )!!


I dunno if that counts as a bug. It's a design feature from its time, that makes it hard to use in a more modern context.

The MC-202 was designed to be a compositional tool - a sequencer. The synth is there for a reason, but the whole point someone would buy a 202 would be to write long linear note sequences. Otherwise, go to your favourite music shop and buy a 101! :-)

As a compositional tool, the CV/Gate in of the 202 is there so that you can enter notes into it via an external keyboard (much nicer than the 202's rubber buttons) this of course makes the 202 not respond fast to realtime external control, but that's not what the 202 was designed for....


:D
anything in my gear that does not work the way I expect it to ....is a bug :D
As a "travelling" box this is great
i have taken it away with me and sat on planes/airports/hotel rooms programming sequences
it "on its own" is fun to program, don't understand when people moan about how complex it is???
ALSO. from memory, the 202 uses a count-up A/D converter to read the input CV - meaning that the time delay you get for each note is dependent on the note voltage... so a simple time delay offset isn't going to get your 202 perfectly lined up with everything anyway... (not that I ever measured, I just only ever used my 202 with its own sequencer, clocked off dinsync, when I had one)
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Postby electrofetish » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:33 pm

no-fi wrote:
electrofetish wrote:The 202 suffers from a bug, if controlling it from another synth via cv/gate, the cv/gate pulse is routed through the
internal step sequencer first.....thus a big lag in time ( cue innerclock systems )!!


no-fi wrote:
I dunno if that counts as a bug. It's a design feature from its time, that makes it hard to use in a more modern context.

The MC-202 was designed to be a compositional tool - a sequencer. The synth is there for a reason, but the whole point someone would buy a 202 would be to write long linear note sequences. Otherwise, go to your favourite music shop and buy a 101! :-)

As a compositional tool, the CV/Gate in of the 202 is there so that you can enter notes into it via an external keyboard (much nicer than the 202's rubber buttons) this of course makes the 202 not respond fast to realtime external control, but that's not what the 202 was designed for....



:D
anything in my gear that does not work the way I expect it to ....is a bug :D
As a "travelling" box this is great
i have taken it away with me and sat on planes/airports/hotel rooms programming sequences
it "on its own" is fun to program, don't understand when people moan about how complex it is???
ALSO. from memory, the 202 uses a count-up A/D converter to read the input CV - meaning that the time delay you get for each note is dependent on the note voltage... so a simple time delay offset isn't going to get your 202 perfectly lined up with everything anyway... (not that I ever measured, I just only ever used my 202 with its own sequencer, clocked off dinsync, when I had one)
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moog voyager

Postby bennyboy » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:11 pm

electric blue model any ideas what there worth on the second hand market
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Re: moog voyager

Postby electrofetish » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:32 am

bennyboy wrote:electric blue model any ideas what there worth on the second hand market


hey bennyboy
electric blue model?
do you mean it has blue LED's?

post up a pic or more info?
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Postby Jason Dirckze » Sat Jul 12, 2008 2:32 pm

x0xb0x on the way!

Should be here in a few days, will probably be building it first week of August when I am on production break. Supposedly the closest to a real TB as you are gonna get from a clone.
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