Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

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Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby vanderlae » Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:05 pm

I've spent the last couple of hours in pro tools painstakingly tabbing to transient through a song I'm working on using the "Identify Beat" (Add Bar|Beat Maker) with a view to extracting the beat for it. This wasn't recorded against a click, and as it's only guitar I've had to create the markers manually (and exhaustively!).

I've come this far, now what do I do?! I need to be able to effectively convert all these bar anchors to create the new tempo, and have the click guided by each of these markers in turn. I know there's a way to do it and I've spent some time online, but most talk about using beat detective, which I obviously haven't. I'm going to pull Superior Drummer midi grooves into this, but obviously I first need the tempo to be assigned - or 'snapped to' - the markers I've created.

Possible?

Cheers,
Dave
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby Text_Edifice » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:01 pm

Hey mate - if you've used identify beat tool (command i on apple yeah?) and created a map of the track such that your markers line up with their respective beats in the track (e.g. you go to the start of bar 1 and identify beat as bar 1, beat 1 - then go to the start of the next bar and identify bar 2, beat 1) the tempo should 'map' automatically by figuring out the time difference between these markers.

If this isn't updating have you made sure you haven't turned off the conductor track by mistake?
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby vanderlae » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:02 pm

Hey Dave,

Yeah - command I, identify beat. Well it looks to have done everything right in terms of automatically working out the tempo with each one, but now that I have all the markers there, I can't seem to be able to 'turn them into the actual tempo'...that is, having the markers as the new bars. I can't even see the conductor track, so I'm not sure about that. I was looking for it, but failed to see it.

Funnily enough, if I click the "+" next to the tempo; something you'd do to insert a new tempo, the blue markers turn yellow and go hard up against the grid. Except they don't BECOME the grid (or tempo), which is what I'm after.

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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby jkhuri44 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:52 pm

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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby vanderlae » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:27 pm

Cheers. Not really... I'm not wanting to hone in on a section of the track to find a measure that will become the overall tempo - I'm wanting to get the tempo of what's already there and use that as the tempo...i.e. have the click work off the inserts/anchors that I've already put in using the Command+I function.

I have all the tempos now that I've done the 'identify beat' command several hundred times (for each count) but at this point my patience is running thing. I may as well just waste another couple of hours and manually hit the '+' next to the 'Tempo' bar on the left pane to set a new tempo from each count. Here goes a waste of an afternoon...
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby Text_Edifice » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:41 pm

Hi mate,

just checking, but it sounds like the conductor track is turned off (i.e. manual tempo is overriding your manual beat map).

On the midi component of the transport are you sure the little conductor button is lit?

Sorry this is a dumb question - just want to rule out the easy solution first.
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby Text_Edifice » Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:12 am

oh and also - if you can't see the little blue guy and the click button on the right side of your transport you need to enable midi controls on the transport under the view menu or (from memory) the triangle drop-down menu to the right of the transport.
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby vanderlae » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:34 pm

Hi Dave, yes I've got the conductor turned off - but I only just did that now that you told me where to look for it as I couldn't find it earlier. Thing is now that I have done this, all the bars I manually put in with the identify beat function have disappeared. All of them?! It also doesn't let you do any more "command+I" inserts with the conductor turned off. I'm confused.

I'm missing something obviously - I've never had to do this and am feeling my way through the dark. God, and this is a love job to boot...now this has become an obsession job.
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby Text_Edifice » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:40 pm

for identify beat to work the conductor track needs to be enabled (turned on) not off.
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby Text_Edifice » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:49 pm

Just looking again at the screenshot you posted. When you click cmd i and identified your beats - did you enter a new value into the dialog box (i.e. change the location value from 1 | 1 | 356 to 1 | 1 | 000 or 2| 2 |345 to 2 | 2| 000)?

What happens if you grab one of the markers on the timeline and try to drag it left or right?

I'm only asking because it looks from the screenshot like you've just hit command i, then enter - meaning that you're markers are in the right spot but aren't labelled properly with the bars and beats that correspond to your track.
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby vanderlae » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:09 pm

Hey Dave, firstly the conductor was on the right setting which is good...a start.

And yes you're right - that's exactly what I was doing: hitting command+I and then enter. I'm screwed then? I've just double-clicked on the first marker I inserted and it opens with the command+I box again allowing you to change the value. The first value says 11|1|543, so this should become 1|1|000? I have no idea what the last three digits represent, they all say something different. I'm sure this is pro tools 101, but I guess you miss some of these obvious ones when you've learnt off your own back.

So my track has 4 counts to each bar, I need to figure out how to mod all these markers now accordingly, and then further - whether the bars will suddenly then snap to using this as the grid. Sounds like 10 coffees worth, just my timing to get a sore throat!
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby vanderlae » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:20 pm

I tried changing the value of the first marker and as soon as I typed in "1" the rest of the values fell into place by themselves. Good. Even if I don't know why, good. However upon clicking OK this message appeared. Saga continues..
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby Text_Edifice » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:23 pm

Assuming the first marker was inserted at the start of your track, yes you wanted to set it to 1 | 1 | 000 (actually try 11 | 1 | 000 as per below)

The numbers refer to (again from memory): bar | beat | ticks - so you'll need to go through and enter the correct values. I doubt you'd need to do every beat though - you could probably get away with bar by bar (or even section by section) and then add extra markers as required.

If you have to map each individual over a long track beat beat detective is really the tool to use...
Last edited by Text_Edifice on Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby Text_Edifice » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:26 pm

yep - this is because you're telling 'tools that instead of the marker starting at bar 11 beat 1 (or whatever) it's now bar 1 beat 1 - the next marker right next door is still set to bar 11 beat 2 (or whatever) and so the tempo output doesn't make any sense. It thinks you've told it to go from bar 1 to bar 12 in a second or two – not even the craziest speed metallers or hardcore producers can get away with that.

try starting at 11 | 1 | 1 and adjusting the markers that follow. You might find you can delete some along the way too.
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby vanderlae » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:11 pm

I've been manually entering values now for, what...however long it's been (too long already) and it's working. A relief, for sure, except for when I pan back out and see that I'm only a 1/4 of the way through and it's taken me over an hour to get this far. Last time I do mates rates on a track that has no timing but needs virtual drums assigned to 'em. This is crap!
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby Text_Edifice » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:27 pm

Glad to hear you're making progress – again, you might find it quicker just to go bar by bar or even in four bar blocks unless the tempo is wildly fluctuating within a bar (you should be able to tell by now if this is the case).

If the tempo is fluctuating within a bar (e.g. really heavy / loose groove) then Beat Detective's Bar and Beat Marker generation will probably speed up your workflow.

Or you could just make the track conform to a hard tempo by quantizing the elastic audio warp points ;-p
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby vanderlae » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:11 pm

Cheers mate. It's still part guess work here, as in every now and then the same message about it not being able to be edited comes up...don't know why. More brick walls. This blows more than anything I've had to do ever. It really does. Recording PROPERLY is so much easier than having to fix shit like this later...my fault for not making the guy redo it against a click, so my lesson learnt. There's enough people recording bands these days, I'll stick to composing from now on and squash the favours to mates. Too many headaches for basically no money. *throws down fists onto table*
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Re: Extracting tempo in pro tools using 'Identify Beat'

Postby vanderlae » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:15 pm

Actually I think that message gets thrown up because after so long of adjusting the values of the bars and having them move forward, by the time you get to enter the value of a particular bar - say 75 where the next is 76 - there's too much of a gap and it won't let you do it. Back to it......
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