Anybody successfully using laptop as sole DAW?

[mavdime]

Greetings all,

I am going overseas for a few months and am planning to buy a new i7 MBP. For the past few years I have been using a trusty 2.8Ghz 8-core Xeon Mac Pro with 10gig Ram. The MacPro has served me well and although I sometimes run into system overload issues when using CPU heavy plugins, generally I am still pretty happy with it except for the fact that it is a noisy beast.

Now, a new quad i7 MBP with 8 gig ram sounds pretty delightful and Ive heard many success stories about these new machines, the question is will I have any need for the Macpro once i buy the MBP? If I sold the MacPro I could use that money towards my travel expenses or I could even use it beefing up the new MBP... I should probably add that I don;t use any PCIexpress cards... my soundcard is firewire or usb (Fireface UFX) and I have a few other usb midi controllers. Plus if I decide to add some Pci cards later on I could get a thunderbolt expansion bay

I make electronic music and use a reasonable amount of plugins, including some heavy ones like Trillian, Omnisphere, etc but I don't use massive orchestra instruments or anything.

If i decide to use the MBP as my sole machine I have options... either I could use a 7200RPM internal drive and a good, reliable FW800 external drive as my audio drive... OR I could take out the MBP's superdrive and put in 2 internal drives... a 128Gig SSd as the system disk and a 7200 RPM disk for audio.

If I decide to sell the Macpro I will hang on to my 27inch LED monitor and use that with the MBP once I return so screen rela estate isn't really an issue either

In hatching all of these plans I keep on remembering people saying that no matter how powerful a laptop I get it won't compare to a desktop due to the inherent limitations of the mobile processors they use

On this note I would be interested to hear any comments / horror stories you may have in using a powerful laptop as your sole DAW....

Thanks

Manny

[jkhuri44]

i wouldnt advise it man...

i am building an i7 quad with 3.2 Ghz processing, and 12GB (2000mhz) DDR3 etc....however your proposed system is close enough to that...it MAY not cause problems, although i'd still stick to a tower/mid tower solution.

[Drumstruck]

You could get a MBP with a hybrid drive - I've seen some advertised with a 256GBSSD / 500GB platter combo - retain your DVD drive that way.

I'm waiting for a MBP to be delivered (i7 Quad 2.2GHz 8GB / 750GB) and should be able to give some feedback (comparing to i7 8-core 12GB W7 DAW) over the next few days - subject to these suckers delivering it (it's a week overdue and I am not trusting them very much atm).

[Alistair]

I've got an old white MacBook that I use from time to time for mixing and even occasionally tracking.

I've recorded 8 audio tracks simultaneously via Firewire interface with no issues many times. You've just gotta close down all programs but the DAW, including turning off Airport etc, and leave the I/O buffer set quite high. I wouldn't trust it as the sole machine for a live concert recording ever, but for demo's or location recordings that you can repeat, it's fine. (In saying this, I've only had it drop out on me once, when I left the buffer set too small. Otherwise it's been rock solid.)

For mixing it's great as well, just leave the buffer up high and there are few problems. But I don't tend to run hundreds of VST's, so there might be issues there.

For low latency overdubs on tracks with a lot going on, and you need to set the buffer lower for playback... mine doesn't cut it. That's where it craps out. If you want to use plugins while overdubbing (eg reverb on vox), no chance in hell.

So personally, I can't use it as a sole DAW, but it gets a lot of stuff done, and it's a significantly lower powered model than the MBP you're talking about. If you don't tend to do a lot of overdubs, I think you'll be perfectly happy with it.

[Linear]

I use a 17" Macbook Pro as my sole DAW.

The advantages are:

- silent
- built-in UPS (which saved me the other day when someone cut a mains cable in Leichhardt)
- obviously portable, so you can use for remote recording (I use Symphony Mobile)
- when you're done, take it home a do other stuff with it (like accounts yuk)

With a mouse/keyboard/display, you wouldn't know it's a laptop. I use Firewire 800 drives and can record 32I/O at 96k with 32 samples of latency.

As for playback, I can do 60 or 70 tracks without problems. I think there may be issues with lots of plugins, but I never reach that issue because I don't use lots. I think I've run maybe 20 Space Designer plugins + 8 or so of Autotune, but that's about it. CPU usage meter didn't even budge.

When the new Mac Pro comes out with Thunderbolt, I think I'll be buying one of those. But the latest 17" macbook pros are pretty damn amazing for the size/price and unless you're running 100+ plugins I think you'd be fine.

Chris

[mavdime]

Chris thanks for the info mate,

Silence, portability and UPS were all things that originally drew me to the new laptops.... ANy FW 800 dirves you'd recommend??? I have a WD studio 1tb at the moment and that has usb expresscard and FW800 so I could probably use that I guess

fantastic to hear it can handle so many tracks tracking / mixing.

Since i make EDM usually I only track a few (if that) tracks at a time. My projects tend to hit around the 45 to 65 tracks mark by the time I come to mixing. While I do use plugins, I don't use excessive amounts of them, and have deliberately limited my plugin folder to some good quality plugins... Soundtoys, Fabfilter, Cytomic, etc --- I have never seen the point in having too many options... just gets in the way of creativity! Also, back in my home studio I would say that 70% of my sounds come from HW synths, so I'm not overloading the computer with every vsti known to man!

Anyway, these days when I mix I process tracks and then render them quickly, just so that I commit to a finished sound... I do this because I used to get caught in the trap of endlessly tweaking parameters of every single plugin in the chain till the cows came home.... In the end this just prevented me from actually finishing anything!

In any case it seems like a new MBP will be quite sufficient in handling most of everything I throw at it. I guess I could sell the Macpro now and if I find myself in dire need of a desktop when I get back I'll buy another!

So far I'm thinking of getting a 15" MBP with the following:
- 2.2ghz quad core
- 8 gig ram
- 500Gb 7200RPM internal HD + a good external OR 128gig SSD + 500gig 7200Rpm in the optibay OR one of the hybrid drives Drumstruck was suggesting

From my understanding the only real difference between the 15" and 17" is that the 17" has one or two extra ports and a expresscard slot.... I think I would be leaning towards the 15 just for the extra portability.. I could always get one one of those new Belkin thunderbolt hubs if I need more peripherals plugged in... having said this would be interested to hear any thoughts you may have on why 17" is preferable?

Thanks all (and keep the suggestions coming).... Also if anybody is interested in buying a 2.8Ghz 8 core MP with 10 gig Ram and 3 internal drives let me know (I'll put it in the classifieds once I decide for sure that I'll sell it)

Cheers

[Text_Edifice]

15" display gets cluttered quickly if working primarily itb – no biggie if you're using an external screen but I've spent the last couple of years in and out of the country and have found the extra screen size useful when working while on the move.

[Sammas]

It is worth noting that macbook pros are silent. They do contain fans and they can make quite a noise...

It usually starts happening after a major OS update (like 10.6 ->10.7). There is software out there to control it, but it is at the disadvantage of dissipating heat. There ain't much you can do about it... its a byproduct of the computer getting older, and new software becoming more CPU intensive.

I purchased a new mini mac server. It absolutely flies! ...and it oh so quiet. But like every mac I've owned, I know it will be a noise beast eventually.

[Text_Edifice]

yeah - my previous macbook (2008) would work fine for a couple of hours then inexplicably fire up the fans to full for no obvious reason. Very frustrating.

Also worth checking your DAW will run without headaches on 10.7 before selling your old machine / buying a new macbook.

[jkhuri44]

yeah - my previous macbook (2008) would work fine for a couple of hours then inexplicably fire up the fans to full for no obvious reason. Very frustrating.

possibly would have required a fan replacement....the bearings in the fans can get loose and cause some kind of rattling, had the same issue with my pc.

[Sammas]

I'm not so sure it is a mechanical problem with the fan. It sounds more like lots and lots of air being sucked & blown through such a small vent.

[mavdime]

Yeah I had heard that they do make noise, hopefully won't wheeze like my MacPro!

In terms of the version of OSX, I was going to buy the computer from my local mac reseller since I get a student discount, I was planning to get them to install SL rather than Lion.

I've heard great things about the mac mini server, perhaps I will get one of them /9instead of a new mac pro) when I get back from my travels!

Thanks for the suggestions everybody! keep em coming

Manny

[Linear]

Yeah older macbook pros were very noisy - especially if you're doing a bounce.

but the 17" macbook pro almost never fires up the fan - and it is variable speed so it can up the revs a little if it's getting warm but still be relatively silent.

I use apogee symphony, so i need a macbook pro with a PCMCIA slot. The 15" doesn't have this anymore, so it's 17" or nothing.

I would always use an external monitor - in fact with the right hardware you can run dual 1920x1200 monitors from a macbook pro (pre thunderbolt which i'm sure will fix that anyway).

honestly i find the new macbook pros amazing. the most reliable thing in the whole studio!!

Chris

[Linear]

oh, and also i elevate the macbook so it isn't sitting on a hard surface. this makes a huge difference as they use the bottom of the body as a heat sink, so if air can flow under it, it doesn't get hot.

and i use sarotech FW 800 drives, they're great. very fast, very reliable and a built-in power supply.

Chris

[mylesgm]

I now have both a mac pro and a MBP but thats only because I use PT HD. Up until two years ago all I had was a laptop and I started with a G3 500 Powerbook back in 2000. I used that as my only system (interfacing with a RME hammerfall DSP) for 6 years tracking/mixing/live recording/live performance/sound design you name it I did and very rarely did I have a fault. I was running Digital Performer and Protools LE and though I occasionally ran out of oomph there were always ways to work around it. Then I moved to a PB G4 then a first generation MBP and now I have another MBP and always with the 17' because screen realestate is important especially if playing live. Solid, portable, silent (relatively), loads of interface options (even more on the 17") and it really is a no brainer. Especially now that protools is independent of hardware and the new RME interfaces do so much onboard (and I think a few other units like MOTU/ TC electronics do as well) MBP are a great option. Get a keyboard and a mouse too and you are laughing. The number one thing to do to make certain they run smooth though is to only put the software you need on it and when tracking only run the DAW dont have mail etc in the background and turn off airport/ethernet etc.

[Particle]

Chris (Linear) is on the money. I'm using a 15" MBP with Logic for all my composition and recording work and running lots of soft synths with no problems. I'm doing mostly theatre work so I take a duet with me to rehearsals and have my library on a 7200rpm bus powered external drive. At the studio I plug in a 27' screen and a keyboard, keep the laptop closed and away I go. As Chris said elevating the Laptop to keep the base cool and hence the fan off is a good idea. Unless I was thinking of running Tools or some other DSP cards I can't imagine going back to a tower. For me the portability out weights the extra grunt.

[AnthonyMF]

I purchased a new mini mac server. It absolutely flies! ...and it oh so quiet. But like every mac I've owned, I know it will be a noise beast eventually.

I just ordered one of these too! So I'm glad to hear it's working for you.

At the moment I only have a tower to mount my UAD2 Solo/laptop in via an adapter. But when this: http://www.sonnettech.com/product/echoexpresscard34thunderbolt.html comes out I'll be able to use it with Thunderbolt. I still have the option of moving to a HD Native system in the future via the proposed magma chassis, if it actually works. But since PT9 can be upgraded to the functionality of a HD system and used with a 3rd party I/O like RME it's not a deal breaker if it doesn't. Plus I can run a UAD2 Satellite if need be, and with thunderbolt could potentially double the number of UAD plugs running simultaneously, since I should get full firewire bandwidth via the Firewire 800 port and the Thunderbolt port with a Firewire adapter.

My Mac Pro is now being sent back home for my own personal songwriting and the Mini will take over in the studio, bringing me back a heap of floor space too! Plus it will be much more portable. For me, a lot of mobile recording gigs I do with a separate monitor and keyboard anyway. I actually used to lug my tower around with me.

EDIT: It's worth mentioning that the Mac Mini looks like it's a hell of a lot easier to get into for a hard drive swap than the laptops. http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Mac-Mini ... own/6131/1

EDIT EDIT: I used a MacBook Pro as my main recording computer from 2007 to mid 2010. I had it elevated off the desk too and this hugely improved it's performance. Stupidly so. Until eventually the battery did overheat, swelled up, and damaged the logic board as far as I can tell. So I replaced it with a 2nd hand Mac Pro.

I'm typing on this zombie of a laptop now, but it has no battery, runs at 50% CPU power, and only boots up half the time. I leave the cover off because if it doesn't boot up I need to press on the logic board a bit until it starts working again. Hilarious.

The Mini is a much less substantial monetary investment for quite a bit of grunt. If it lasts me even 3 years like my laptop did then I've spent my money very well, whereas I spent ~$5,000 on my MBP.

[Drumstruck]

Extra USB port and bigger screen are the reasons I ordered a MBP17" - with a dongle, KVM and the desk's USB + f/w connections, external monitor and storage it will be fully patched.....

Have you seen these doovers?
http://www.langtoninfo.co.uk/showitem.a ... B004SHC5BS


Very tempted by the mini now - looks a good option to replace my unco-operative i7 PC ....

[mavdime]

Extra USB port and bigger screen are the reasons I ordered a MBP17"

'

Fair enough, the extra screen real estate would be nicer I guess

Have you seen these doovers?
http://www.langtoninfo.co.uk/showitem.a ... B004SHC5BS

That looks awesome!

Thanks for the suggestions everybody, I think my mind is more or less set on selling the MacPro and investing in a MBP

When I get back form my travels I will probably add a Mac Mini Server or the like if it's needed

Thanks again

Manny

[Chinagraf]

I run a MAcbook Pro i7 15" as my portable and the only thing I wish it had was a card slot, which is only on the 17".

[audioio]

Reading through these posts reminds me of just how much Apple has turned into a consumer electronics firm rather than a provider for audio, video and design professionals.

Thunderbolt might change things once products become more than vapourware, but otherwise Apple now forces you to buy the most expensive machines if you want the possibility of expansion. They reduced the number of USB and FW ports and swapped the ExpressCard slot for an SD card slot. (How many of you use that!?)

I recently bought a mid-2009 MBP: a custom-build 2.93GHz C2D, the last 15" with an ExpressCard slot. I had previously picked up a Magma 4-slot expansion chassis and with the addition of an ExpressCard host adaptor I have the possibility of running PTHD on second-hand PCI cards. (Not yet... I ran out of money.)

Since the Magma has room for 4 hard drives, I thought in the meantime I could have a robust rackmount HD case. But, outside PT, PCI is not supported by Snow Leopard. The computer sees my Seritek HD controller but not the hard drives. I have found a Canadian company which makes a PCI to PCIe bridge so I might experiment with a PCIe card connected to this adaptor and see if that works.

Anyway, I did my first job with this machine this week with a ProFire Lightbridge (thanks Angus) and Creamware converters (thanks Myles). The presence of only one FW port meant connecting a HD to a USB port, but the track count wasn't too high and it ran like a dream. In fact, the driver for the Lightbridge that comes with PT9 is way more stable than the older PPC-compatible one I have on my G5 tower.

Nothing really heavy duty yet, but so far I'm happy.

[Drumstruck]

Man there are so many ways to skin a cat!!

I occasionally use the SD slot as my mixer and drum module both use SD cards - also have a USB card reader on the WinPC - so it's handy for sneakernet backups/copies when the USB ports are all populated.

Hopefully Apple will add some more thunderbolt ports in future as this port is also used for video out (so 2 would be good).

[mavdime]

I was doing some research last night, Sonnet is about to release a very cool expresscard adapter to add another thunderbolt port... this would give the 17 MBP 2 thunderbolt ports... nice!

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/thund ... index.html

I am still leaning towards the 15 at the moment just for the portability... screen real estate is a bit of a non issue for me since I will have it hooked up to a 27 inch monitor when at home!

hmm decisions, decisions!

[mavdime]

Thanks for the suggestions and advice everybody, much appreciated!

Ordered my laptop:

- MBP 15" 2.2Ghz
- 8 gig RAM (bought from Scorptec)
- 500gb 7200rpm hard drive
- anti-glare matte screen

When at home I will use it with an external keyboard / monitor, so hopefully shouldn't be any noticeable workflow difference from what I currently have

When I come back from my travels I may take out the optical drive, put the 500gb hardrive in the optibay and buy an SSD as the system disk, or I'll get a Mac Mini or something!

Exciting times : )

Only bummer is that the shop said it will come with Lion installed and that they couldn't install SL (which I have at home) : ( so there will undoubtedly be some teething issues with plugins... ah well!

Manny

[smash]

Hey Guys,

I've got both a 17" i7 MBP & a Mac Pro

The 17" is FAR louder then the Mac Pro when the fans are really moving - but it takes a lot to get them moving.

I do have my doubts about their use for high workload machines - we have some in the studio that get used for video work, and they definitely seem to have a much higher failure rate that when used for "regular" stuff.

Same with HDD's though - as soon as you start using a "consumer" grade HDD for extensive work, they start dying.

That said, nowadays most audio jobs won't even come close to really pushing an i7.


Simon "Smash" Ashby

[jkhuri44]

interested in seeing how many 32 voice instances of Massive i can fire up + automate and add VST effects to once i finish building....

[audioio]

I was doing some research last night, Sonnet is about to release a very cool expresscard adapter to add another thunderbolt port

I read this the other way: The adaptor adds an ExpressCard slot to Thunderbolt-equipped MBs that have none.

[mavdime]

Ha ha, Shit I think you're right... I just read it gain and it does seem like it adds expresscard to the the thunderbolt port and not vice versa!

[kalkman]

you cats using macbooks: download this guy... http://www.eidac.de/ (smcfancontrol)
you can customise the fan speeds in relation to core temp. before i got this my fans seemed to kick in a random times, but mostly they were just out to lunch. they can get noisy but it's when they're not that you should start to worry - i ended up cooking a logicboard because of overheating.

[ChrisW]

Anyone using a Lynx Aurora with a MBP or MacPro?
Having some problems with my iMac performance and wondering what to do next.