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Getting a great tom sound without EQ
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Getting a great tom sound without EQ
How many of you can succesfully get a great tom sound, without shitloads of EQ?
I can get a good tom sound, but I have to do it with eq, by boosting whatever the fundamental note of that partiuclar tom is, then by removing a boat load of low mid stuff (say 300 to 500 with wide Q) and then adding attack.
I have tried, many different mics and positions.
I can get good kick and snare sounds without such drastic EQ, and I am not unhappy with the tom sounds I get, just looking to see if others are doing it differently and if there is something I could do or change, to improve things...
I can get a good tom sound, but I have to do it with eq, by boosting whatever the fundamental note of that partiuclar tom is, then by removing a boat load of low mid stuff (say 300 to 500 with wide Q) and then adding attack.
I have tried, many different mics and positions.
I can get good kick and snare sounds without such drastic EQ, and I am not unhappy with the tom sounds I get, just looking to see if others are doing it differently and if there is something I could do or change, to improve things...
Peter Knight
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
Hey Peter - is this on particular drums or generally? If it's one kit then a change of skins may be an answer.
If generally, what sort of tom sound are you after? I found a great sound last night using a germanium pre, but it may not be the same as your great sound
If generally, what sort of tom sound are you after? I found a great sound last night using a germanium pre, but it may not be the same as your great sound
Ian Dare
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
Drumstruck wrote:Hey Peter - is this on particular drums or generally? If it's one kit then a change of skins may be an answer.
If generally, what sort of tom sound are you after? I found a great sound last night using a germanium pre, but it may not be the same as your great sound
its always my kit. Though in general I find any tom I have recorded I have to do the EQ thing I mentioned on.
These are new heads, but thats not really it.
A change of pre wont do it either, been there doing that... 8)
Tried different mics (57, 421, NT5s OM5s D6 (floor tom, doesnt that sound like ass)
I am just curious, how anyone is getting really good tom sounds , sans EQ
as far as tom sounds go, you know, natural , good , full, anything in the toontrack series of tom sounds would be a good example.
Peter Knight
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
Could it be your room or the positioning within the room that is causing the issue? Do they sound ok soloed then turn to shit as you add other mics in?
Kurt Neist
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
Close micing with directional mics will need eq. Try omni's or more distant micing.
Throw away your cymbals or overdub them.
Cheers,
Paul
Throw away your cymbals or overdub them.
Cheers,
Paul
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
its not the room...
I think it might just be the nature of the beast... unless, you guys are all getting great tom sounds with close mics and not using EQ 8)
I think it might just be the nature of the beast... unless, you guys are all getting great tom sounds with close mics and not using EQ 8)
Peter Knight
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
Paul Maybury wrote:Close micing with directional mics will need eq. Try omni's or more distant micing.
Throw away your cymbals or overdub them.
Cheers,
Paul
I think you might be right.
Peter Knight
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
I'm in the same boat as you here (usually) but not too long ago a friend of mine came to Linear to track a session and needed my help patching everything in.
He asked for RE20's on the top and bottom of the rack tom which I summed on the console and routed to 1 channel of the ampex mm1200. We did the same with the floor tom only with EV868. I don't usually do top and bottom mic. We did however use the same Sytek pre's I probably would use most sessions for toms with RE20's on them, they have tonnes of gain and no EQ but I did use the HP filter on the console before hitting the tape machine, no boosting or cutting anywhere though and it was our rack tom (but the drummers floor tom).
I'm not sure if there was some sort of phase cancelling position magic going on or if it was due to the fact that I didn't have to gain the pre's up as much to get my level because I was summing both the mics to the one channel but i'm telling you it was different and awesome. There was sweet-F-all spill from the rest of the kit (including cymbals), i'm talkin 90/10 ratio and there was tone there that was usually what I try to obtain with EQ. We were going for a darker more toneful tom sound (70's elton john blah blah blah) and I know my friend Evan did no EQ moves on the mix that went to mastering.
pretty cool,
think i'm a convert.
haven't had a chance yet to put it back to practice but I will.
He asked for RE20's on the top and bottom of the rack tom which I summed on the console and routed to 1 channel of the ampex mm1200. We did the same with the floor tom only with EV868. I don't usually do top and bottom mic. We did however use the same Sytek pre's I probably would use most sessions for toms with RE20's on them, they have tonnes of gain and no EQ but I did use the HP filter on the console before hitting the tape machine, no boosting or cutting anywhere though and it was our rack tom (but the drummers floor tom).
I'm not sure if there was some sort of phase cancelling position magic going on or if it was due to the fact that I didn't have to gain the pre's up as much to get my level because I was summing both the mics to the one channel but i'm telling you it was different and awesome. There was sweet-F-all spill from the rest of the kit (including cymbals), i'm talkin 90/10 ratio and there was tone there that was usually what I try to obtain with EQ. We were going for a darker more toneful tom sound (70's elton john blah blah blah) and I know my friend Evan did no EQ moves on the mix that went to mastering.
pretty cool,
think i'm a convert.
haven't had a chance yet to put it back to practice but I will.
Wade Keighran.
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
W.P.Keighran wrote:I'm in the same boat as you here (usually) but not too long ago a friend of mine came to Linear to track a session and needed my help patching everything in.
He asked for RE20's on the top and bottom of the rack tom which I summed on the console and routed to 1 channel of the ampex mm1200. We did the same with the floor tom only with EV868. I don't usually do top and bottom mic. We did however use the same Sytek pre's I probably would use most sessions for toms with RE20's on them, they have tonnes of gain and no EQ but I did use the HP filter on the console before hitting the tape machine, no boosting or cutting anywhere though and it was our rack tom (but the drummers floor tom).
I'm not sure if there was some sort of phase cancelling position magic going on or if it was due to the fact that I didn't have to gain the pre's up as much to get my level because I was summing both the mics to the one channel but i'm telling you it was different and awesome. There was sweet-F-all spill from the rest of the kit (including cymbals), i'm talkin 90/10 ratio and there was tone there that was usually what I try to obtain with EQ. We were going for a darker more toneful tom sound (70's elton john blah blah blah) and I know my friend Evan did no EQ moves on the mix that went to mastering.
pretty cool,
think i'm a convert.
haven't had a chance yet to put it back to practice but I will.
Hey thanks for that.... Re20s, never used one.
Did you manage to snap a picky of the setup?
I am gunna top and bottom mic a Tom today and give it a run, will have to use 57s for this today....
I also, have never removed the bottom skin and mic,d from underneath will get that on the todo list today too.
Cheers
Peter Knight
Cant ego loquemur Latine
http://www.peterknightmusician.com
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
have you tried condensor mic on a tom? just 1 , to see if you get the same issue. ,maybe you dont have enough for all toms...or maybe you do
Jamil Khuri
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
jkhuri44 wrote:have you tried condensor mic on a tom? just 1 , to see if you get the same issue. ,maybe you dont have enough for all toms...or maybe you do
gonna move on to those today... 8)
I really have only ever used dynamics.
Peter Knight
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
Most top engineers and producers have been miking under toms for the last 30-40 years.
C h r i z t o w n o
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
The Tasmanian wrote:Most top engineers and producers have been miking under toms for the last 30-40 years.
And a lot of "not-so-top" engineers too..... I liked the results from a ribbon centred on my BD resonants so much that I've put one under my floor toms now. One ribbon does 3 floor toms as an underhead.
Paul Maybury wrote:......Throw away your cymbals or overdub them.
Cheers,
Paul
Nooooooo !!!! If I can't take my cymbals I'm not going
+1 on the RE20s (or RE320s in my case) - very versatile.
Ian Dare
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
The Tasmanian wrote:Most top engineers and producers have been miking under toms for the last 30-40 years.
Hi Chris
is that to combine with top mikes, or do you mean removing the resonant heads and micing inside the tom, ala like you might on a inside kick mic?
thanks
Peter
Peter Knight
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
Either set-up Peter,
The top is for the attack, the bottom mic is for the note/ low end extension.
Although I rarely record toms with no bottom skin.
With a bottom skin, the bottom mic also extends the length of the note - at a guess even 3-4 times longer in length of note than the top head.
Its a must for floortoms, especially if they are hit firmly. no need for EQ.
The gentler the playing - the less the need for under mics on say rack toms.
RE20's do a dam good job on floortom top, underneath mic is not as important as the top, because its always ends up lower in the balance to the top mic.
I can use almost anything under a floortom - as long as it has a reasonable extension to the lower freqs.
Also, If its a gentle played kit, instead of direct under mic's, as mentioned here by Ian, I sometimes throw a ribbon down low to get a picture of the low end of the toms/kick , near the floortom - away from the snare.
But cymbal spill and room reflections start to come into play.
Its gotta be a nice sounding room.
The top is for the attack, the bottom mic is for the note/ low end extension.
Although I rarely record toms with no bottom skin.
With a bottom skin, the bottom mic also extends the length of the note - at a guess even 3-4 times longer in length of note than the top head.
Its a must for floortoms, especially if they are hit firmly. no need for EQ.
The gentler the playing - the less the need for under mics on say rack toms.
RE20's do a dam good job on floortom top, underneath mic is not as important as the top, because its always ends up lower in the balance to the top mic.
I can use almost anything under a floortom - as long as it has a reasonable extension to the lower freqs.
Also, If its a gentle played kit, instead of direct under mic's, as mentioned here by Ian, I sometimes throw a ribbon down low to get a picture of the low end of the toms/kick , near the floortom - away from the snare.
But cymbal spill and room reflections start to come into play.
Its gotta be a nice sounding room.
C h r i z t o w n o
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
The Tasmanian wrote:Either set-up Peter,
The top is for the attack, the bottom mic is for the note/ low end extension.
Although I rarely record toms with no bottom skin.
With a bottom skin, the bottom mic also extends the length of the note - at a guess even 3-4 times longer in length of note than the top head.
Its a must for floortoms, especially if they are hit firmly. no need for EQ.
The gentler the playing - the less the need for under mics on say rack toms.
RE20's do a dam good job on floortom top, underneath mic is not as important as the top, because its always ends up lower in the balance to the top mic.
I can use almost anything under a floortom - as long as it has a reasonable extension to the lower freqs.
Also, If its a gentle played kit, instead of direct under mic's, as mentioned here by Ian, I sometimes throw a ribbon down low to get a picture of the low end of the toms/kick , near the floortom - away from the snare.
But cymbal spill and room reflections start to come into play.
Its gotta be a nice sounding room.
Thanks Chris
Great info, I really appreciate it.
Peter Knight
Cant ego loquemur Latine
http://www.peterknightmusician.com
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Re: Getting a great tom sound without EQ
One of the two mics usually the bottom will "most of the time" need to be phase reversed.
Phase check against each other and then the overheads.
I reckon double micing rack toms is unnecessary but floors can really benefit from it.
Unless its a crap sounding drum than its just twice as bad ; )
A few Re20s in this clip.
http://www3.iconcerts.com/en/content/ja ... e-montreux
Phase check against each other and then the overheads.
I reckon double micing rack toms is unnecessary but floors can really benefit from it.
Unless its a crap sounding drum than its just twice as bad ; )
A few Re20s in this clip.
http://www3.iconcerts.com/en/content/ja ... e-montreux
Jason Blackwell
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