2 channel ultra high quality AD and DA advice

[harry]

Hey Guys,

i'm about to archive all of my vinyl (i'm a DJ) onto my computer...
i wan't to make the transfers as good as possible..

the records will be dumped using a good turntable (sl1200) and stanton 680 with fresh needles (high quality)
they will be feeding an ex abc phono preamp (really nice)..

I already have a creamware a16ultra converter box.

Will i gain any significant increase in sound quality by investing in a dedicated 2 channel ad or ad to da box.
I could possibly spend $1000 to $1500 on it if i will get a real perceivable increase in sound quality over what i already have.

I was looking into the new maudio 2626 box (for profools) and hear it has good convertors and low jitter clock...
if a stereo box aint much better than this i might just go for this option.

thanks

[smash]

I think thats probably the first time that the words "m-audio" and "ultra high quality" have ever been used in the same sentence.

When they refer to "low jitter" they mean the clock doesn't get scared easily, not that the clock outputs anything low jitter.

To give you an idea...

Apogee Duet $699 - Medium Quality
Apogee Ensemble $2749 - Medium High Quality
Apogee AD-16x $4700 - High Quality

Ultra High Quality -> Prism, Benchmark, Lavry = Megabucks [/i]

[harry]

oops, please don't think badly of me smash (maudio and ultra high quality) their gear has always looked crappy to me... i

as far as i can tell the three factors to look into might be:

converter chips = all look very good on paper - even the cheap ones)
clock and jitter specs = seems that every interface these days is marketing itself as low jitter...
op amp stages pre AD and post DA = seems that this is the area where cost cuts are made.... hence sub $1 parts with crap slew rate and other issues are used...

was thinking along the lines of RME FF400 (as i don't use a mac), or step up to say a Mytec?

[smash]

oops, please don't think badly of me smash (maudio and ultra high quality) their gear has always looked crappy to me...

I don't think really that anyone here thinks that way :-) I'm know that personally I'm probably more stupid than the next person.
The black lion audio adc seems to be a good "bang for buck option" if you need AD without an "interface"

The RME stuff is pretty good too...[/b]

[beatmad]

I'd be interested to hear what people have to say about this too. Isn't 44.1k/16bit good enough? I mean if you are recording just to archive your records and not to process them any further wouldn't this be enough? Other than listening to them I would probably use them for sampling and since I have a few hardware samplers which are at the most 16bit that would be the most I would need. Wouldn't using the converters on a good DAT machine or Ta@#$% DA88 be sufficient? Would it be worth running them through a tape machine? I came across this site a while ago which makes me ask the tape question http://www.sonicraft.com/A2DX/a2dx_tech.html

[jkhuri44]

if your vinyls were analog recordings, mastered to vinyl, i'd recommend at least 24 bit 44K....

you'll love it....

however, without starting a sampling rate shitfight...i'd recommmend listening to both 16 44....and 24 44 or 24 96 ....and asking yourself if you can hear a difference....if you can....then u'll have to fight the storage space battle!! :P

[harry]

as a DJ i definitely notice the sound difference between CD's (wav) and a well pressed vinyl, have played so many different sound systems in melbourne from shitty jbl eon's to the Forum's massive FOH (was like steering a massive battleship... i stopped counting the subwoofers when i got to 18 of em) vinyl is that 5% to 10% better but we all know what that's about......

but i will say - it's very hard to find a well pressed vinyl... but when it is well pressed and mastered....oh my

please don't get me started on mp3's....

i don't mind 24/96 storage considerations as hard drives are cheap - 1TB $270 average stereo track (5mins) about 200mb = 5000 tracks per drive...

the mytec AD looks almost within my budget.... then i can get a DA when i get more cash...

although this seems to be a bit more than interesting for us DIYers with no life = just add power...

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslut ... ertor.html
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/geekslut ... clues.html

gonna start by A/B ing some phono cartridges, and phono preamps - the ABC one - a good Rane mixer one, Urei mixer (its nice) and a shitty pioneer djm600 to remind us that our ears aren't lying..

using a phase meter to calibrate the turntables and make sure the L / R image is accurate.... (serato is great for this)

this will take maybe more than 1000+ hours to do all the transfers, might take a year or two to do it... what to make sure that i never have to do it again...

[harry]

http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/folders ... 22evm.html

[jkhuri44]

harry, u'll probably find Ortofon cartridges to be the ticket :)

they do the Banana varietys for scratch Djs....but they'll have some hi fi ones...i fiink.

[jkhuri44]

PS...why dontcha plug-in the RCAs from the turntables directly into some convertors??


coz i thought turntables output Line level?

i assume a preamp will give a stronger signal? please fill me in, im interested now.

[peat]

the output of a turntable is such that it usually needs to run through a 'phono' preamp
this is because the phono preamp has a sprectral bias called the RIAA curve
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization
check it out

[tonymite]

[quote="jkhuri44"]PS...why dontcha plug-in the RCAs from the turntables directly into some convertors??


coz i thought turntables output Line level?

i assume a preamp will give a stronger signal? please fill me in, im interested now.[/quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization

[tonymite]

Hey peat - did you just beat me to an ebay sale by 5 cents ?

[tonymite]

Harry - you buzz me out sometimes. Do you think that in Australia there is an HSV Holden DA/AD converter manufacturer or something ?

Go book a studio that has all the above then come visit your uncle Tony with the DIY PCM-4222 and modified Ta@#$% RA-1000 ( PCM-1792 DAC ) for monitoring and " hear " what your other converters have masked.

Look under the hood see what you get in a Pro DAC ADC and what a high quality CD / DVD player gets ya.

Both together will cost me around the 1k mark ... no where near the pricetag of mediocre Apogee's. ( mytek ... yeah ... league of ADAT HD24XR / IZ Radar ) overpriced Lavry, Prism ??


if u wanna be a (insert : _ _ _ _ )

I'd go :

http://blacklionaudio.com/micro_adc.html

uses the crystal convertors

It's a beesDick away from the latest and greatest .. but your Vynal's don't match Sash Hippi's - ie: your records don't have the dynamics that a 132 dB PCM1792 ( run in dual ) will produce ).

just get it ( radio edit )

[HA_DA_JA]

Am I missing something here??
Why the attitude??

[tonymite]

[quote="HA_DA_JA"]Am I missing something here??
Why the attitude??[/quote]

naarr.. bruvz

[peat]

Hey peat - did you just beat me to an ebay sale by 5 cents ?

definitely not
havent shopped for ages
did some selling a while back
but
if i was shopping
i definitely would have done the old 5c last second bid

[tonymite]

[quote="peat"][quote="tonymite"]Hey peat - did you just beat me to an ebay sale by 5 cents ?[/quote]

definitely not
havent shopped for ages
did some selling a while back
but
if i was shopping
i definitely would have done the old 5c last second bid[/quote]

just refering to the identical post re: RIAA EQ that were sent at same spooky time ...

[DaleRoyce]

Maybe a tad late but after weeks of jobs A/Bing a Lavery Black AD, a Mytek 96ad and the Mytek 192adc,
I must tell you that i love my new Mytek 192adc. Talk to the gents at AWAVE Melb.
Oh, and my D/A is a Grace 904 (if working in phones rings your bell, you cant look further)... But it sounds like you only need the frontend (A/Dc).

[Thirteen]

If you can find a Korg MR-1000 at a good price it is fantastic for archiving 2 track stuff, it samples in a raw 1 bit format at 5.6 MB/second. I use mine for archiving, because it is 1 bit the audio doesn't go through decimation filters that all the linear formats use, and it is a raw format so it will never be obsolete, it is simply the 1st stage output of the converter sampled at TWICE the rate of DSD recordings.

You can then use the included Mac and PC software to convert to whatever other format you want such as AIFF, but you still have the 5.6MB archival file. Any tape transfers that I do now I make sure that I print to 1 bit format.

[smash]

The MR-1000 is great, a friend of mine has one that we will sometimes use as a master two track recorder, they are relatively cheap, and sound pretty damn good to boot.

The only potential problem that I have is with the Korg Audio Gate software, the software that converts from the 5.6Mb (Megabit) DSD file, back to PCM.

Basically, the way the software is authorised is by connecting the MR-1000 into the computer. The software "sees" the MR-1000, and unlocks itself for use, almost like a dongle. Thankfully, unlike a dongle, the MR-1000 doesn't always need to plugged in, only "occasionally". Every now and again, when you turn on the program, it will ask you to plug in a H/W unit.

For Archival purposes these is a larger issue that should be considered. What happens in six years time when the MR-1000 blows a power supply, is no longer a repairable item, and thus no longer will unlock the software?

You can get third party conversion software -the most popular is Saracon DSD - but it's not cheap, at around $US 1800.00

Food for thought.

[Thirteen]

For Archival purposes these is a larger issue that should be considered. What happens in six years time when the MR-1000 blows a power supply, is no longer a repairable item, and thus no longer will unlock the software?

Food for thought.

Good point, I might contact Korg about this issue and ask it they might make an unlocked version of Audiogate at the end of the MR series product life.