ricks last article

[Thirteen]

Hey Rick, someone's hacked your account!

[headman]

Further to Rick's last post. I read an article back in the 70's where Bob Moog said he didn't care how his name was pronounced it was his then wife who preferred the Moog as in Vogue pronunciation and so for the cause of marital harmony the later pronunciation became de rigueur.
I can hardly wait for the next edition of Audio Technology, it better be a corker.

headman

[rick]

if corker = laughs then you better stop waiting
if corker = interesting then it depends on what you find interesting :)

[musikwerks]

While we're on the subject....

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/moan-zon ... -____.html

[rick]

i wish i had seen that before i wrote mine , i could have saved the world some words

[daniel_c]

I wonder how this months article will be received.....

[TimS]

Hmmm, cryogenic cables - I think not!!

[rick]

really why not ?

[TimS]

Rick, I dont pertain to be a cable expert/boffin/audiophile, but I've somewhat been down this path before designing guitar rack systems..
I'm sure they are like cryogenic tubes/valves.. :-* Freezing the particle matter in the material is good, as it aligns particles, until there is warmth and signal passed through them - I'm sure the atomic structure of the electrons in the material change due to variances in the signal strength and temperature. However, I'm NO expert.

Cables will degrade audio signal by using cheap conducting material, poor insulation, low quality jacks/plugs, cheap solder, and poor strand design.
Why did SRV and Brian May like to use curly cables - higher inductance, but less capacitance and no high end 'ice pick' tops.. They still had/have AWESOME guitar tones though.

I did the interconnect cable thing for my guitar rig designs back in 2003/4 - different cable, changing signal flow direction, using different stranded/braided cable against different solid core style cables, using gold v's nickel jacks, etc.. In the end, Mogami or Canare cable was good as any good high quality cable I tried in the medium to so-so price range (looking for wiring of guitar rigs therefore, unbalanced).

I'm not talking about using silver cables - they sound like ice picks to your ears and have way too much high end in the signal.
Plus, who has $000's to spend on a cable right? And I'm not comparing "cheap poorly-made, moulded cables". Obviously your $17G IEC cable gave you a perceived improvement in you amps signal quality (possible placebo effect here too). Not disputing that either, but its a consideration right?
Now I'm speaking alot from the unbalanced point of view, not balanced cable or different studio wiring configurations.

However, I think it comes down to how the listener 'perceives' the overall sound. If you 'think' cable gives you a better depth of field in the audio image, then that is great. Its going to come down to user preferences obviously.
Most people won't tell the difference between a variety of cables, especially IEC cables, however I'm sure there are many TR's who possibly can..
I'm sure this will start some king of flame war now (not my intention either, I'm just voicing my opinion, valued or not)
But it will still make for interesting discussion.
Tim..

PS your AT article I know was more aimed at AC power cables than dedicated audio interconnect cables, which I know using balanced power is a must in any professional system, studio or live rig.. especially if you want clean power - been down this road too.. :-)
Nearly every IEC cable I use is "hospital-strength audio" :-)

[rick]

the whole cryo thing is part of a "system"
and you either have a system that is the best you can come up with or your don't

the idea that my clients couldn't hear it or don't care to know about this stuff has nothing to do with this process , its all about trying to push what i do on a level as high and as far as i can

i'm really only 70% finished , one thing it has achieved for certain is the damn iphones no longer get into the system were they used to because of the work we have done.
i would have had another 5000 words on the audio cables but there is only so much room ( and we havent finished yet) .

the thing about freezing cables is i have been cryo treating my woodworking tools for a couple of years ( high carbon steel c1890-1910 cast steel chisels of which i have about 400 ) and this makes such a difference ( they get WAY harder and sharpen /keener which is simple to verify by timing the sharpening process and checking out the edges ) that i thought ah what the hell lets dunk the cables in too :)

there is no question at all that at a metal crystal level the copper in the cable is affected by this process there are tech reports to show it on my cables ! , however the change in metal stucture just cannot be checked in any kind of sane a/b audio test ! i only have the one system!
so maybe its a waste of time
but what i do i know
nothing is obviousily different on the audio precision test bench which is as good as a technical test that CAN
be done. maybe some golden ear type could discern a difference
do i think it cryo really does it make an sound difference ? dunno
not as much as the actual cables themselves thats for sure !

but what i do know is freezing cable is actually kind of a cheap process ($100 kg) so its not really madness just an indulgence that i am taking things as far ( or further) then is thought possible.
i would have hated to make all those cables only to find out that some other guy in another part of the world had proven a real audio differences in cryo cables this time next year !

tim , your a nurse or a hospital technician or something right ..?

what i found really interesting is that different NSW hospitals seem have different IEC plug standards , the plugs at the SAN that i checked out were a much more heavy duty kind then the ones i saw in RNS and RPA , except in one theater at RNS where they were insane! ( maybe there was a problem there that cables solved ?)

the ones connected to the theatre in a small strathfield private hospital i sussed out were more in line with the japanese ones i found and bought
what are your observations?
what kind are finding there way home to your house ;) ?

the lack of iphone interference i have solved has come about because of the new xlr connecters, not the iec leads because i am still working on swapping the iecs out in the offending boxes and the i phone interferences have all but been squashed, i still have some 96 k digital phone / random emi hash issues but i havent finished yet so we will see

in contrast to what most people seem to think the difference you hear in guitar cables is much stronger then pro balanced xlr lines , guitars cables are way more part of the "circuit sound " then transformer balanced pro gear . if you want to "play" with cables guitars are a good cheap way to see if your into the wholething or if your time is better spent elsewhere

i put my on my flak jacket on a week or two ago waiting for some tech boffin to start throwing granades about that last column but no incoming yet:)

what i am doing is not about magical cables- its about applied knowledge and experience at a level that i am happy to be challeged on because this is something i have looked into very seriiously for a long time now , its not something i have done lightly, i doubt anybodyon this side of the world is even close to the amount of trial and error /learn and wonder that i have put into this so i am curious to see who steps up to tell me i am out of order this month :)

no massive improvement claims , no try this at home and your system will improve claims , this month its just a look into the kind of level i take my back room / after house engineering housekeeping ... because i want to :)

[TimS]

Thanks for the reply Rick - you obviously are doing your research and it is paying off.
Just to claify, I was NOT "having a go" about the situation, however, just making comment overall (purey from a guitarist/musician POV).
I agree with you in regards to cable structure and cryogenics - atomically, the particles ARE changed and aligned. This is documented in many instances on the www..
Your woodworking example is also very true. My dad was a fitter and toolmaker, so carbon tipped bits and miing machine parts were a part of my ife as a youngster in his shed.

Yes I work in healthcare - I'm a consultant nurse in Intensive Care of 22yrs, and work in Class A cardiac protected areas constantly.
We use alot of high tech gear and much of it is electrically protected and the such..
Sure, some of the better IEC power cables have made their way home - good thick stranded 15Amp ones replace the usual cheaper 10Amp ones as I find them.. its a swap program sort of ;-)
I'm sure there a quite varying standards of IEC quality across the hospital system - particularly when alot of equipment is manufactured O/S, bringing various grades of quality power cables with them.

As comparing guitar cables, it is a bit more 'in the ear of the beholder'.. to me Mogami 2524 and Canare GS-6 is pretty much the better quality for-the-price cable, especially if you make them yourself (as I do) and use quaity jacks/XLR's (Switchcraft/Neutrik) - makes a huge difference.

I'd be very interested to see your new cables and power leads at some stage.. I'm always interested..
Tim..

[heathen]

What happens if you give the iphone a cryo treatment? :)

[TimS]

What happens if you give the iphone a cryo treatment? :)

a crazy screen??

[walding]

What happens if you give the iphone a cryo treatment? :)

It freezes :D

[heathen]

With the amount of cables Rick probably has he's bound to drop his iphone in at some point. Then we'll know, well ummm if he says anything about it. :)

[rick]

make no mistake i believe the iphone is the worse gadget i have ever owned ,
its such a great little toy ... but what a shit telephone.
i would love to put it in the deep freeze- and leave it there.

now what have i done with that old nokia without a camera and a mono scren with the battery that lasted ten days and reception on the moon..?
oh yeah i gave it to my dad when i got the iphone :(

i could not bring myself to ask for it back he keeps telling me how its the best phone he has ever had !

[TimS]

make no mistake i believe the iphone is the worse gadget i have ever owned ,
its such a great little toy ... but what a shit telephone.
i would love to put it in the deep freeze- and leave it there.

now what have i done with that old nokia without a camera and a mono scren with the battery that lasted ten days and reception on the moon..?
oh yeah i gave it to my dad when i got the iphone :(

i could not bring myself to ask for it back he keeps telling me how its the best phone he has ever had !

I must agree Rick - my Nokia 5210 was the best phone I ever owned too..
No MP3, internet, WAP - and it sounded like a phone too!!

[bennyboy]

so is frezing stuff pronounced Kai ro genic or cry o genic

[bennyboy]

sorry got a bad sence of humor but realy couldnt help my self

[Thirteen]

make no mistake i believe the iphone is the worse gadget i have ever owned ,
its such a great little toy ... but what a shit telephone.
i would love to put it in the deep freeze- and leave it there.

now what have i done with that old nokia without a camera and a mono scren with the battery that lasted ten days and reception on the moon..?
oh yeah i gave it to my dad when i got the iphone :(

i could not bring myself to ask for it back he keeps telling me how its the best phone he has ever had !

Even though I have only ever used Mac's, and wouldn't even know how to open an application on a PC, I have avoided the iPhone. I figure that if I want all the nifty stuff I would be better off buying an iPod and using it on wi-fi networks, and avoiding the extortionate phone plans that are on offer.

[David W]

Well Rick I cannot comment on improvements with varying types of power cables as I have not tested anything to the extent you may have done.
But I do seem to recall over on the PSW Whatever it Takes forum Moderator and very well respected audio engineer Ross Hogarth copped a bit of flack over his support of a particular brand of Power cable in which he honestly felt he heard a difference in quality.

Now the people who argued against him had never actualy heard the cables in action and were only applying layman theory. A popular one was if the electricity supply has traveld possibly many kilometers from a substation then through the buildings own wiring how is 1 extra meter of good quality cable going to make a difference. (maybe some kind of filtering??) Who knows but I would appreciate if someone elso did the hard yards to prove the benifits.

So keep up the good work Rick.
I'm waiting for the results ;-)))

[Chris H]

Well i have never tested power cables for differing sound qualities, but i have at times been surprised at the new things i hear when i have upgraded my monitoring path. One thing worth saying is these subtle differences are only heard when the monitoring chain is of exceptional quality. When i was getting used to my B&W speakers i was surprised at being able to hear a bass drop in on an alanis morissette CD that i had been disecting for the previous year and had never heard before. One recent surprise i had was being able to hear a Manley Vari-Mu when simply inserted into the signal chain.

[no-fi]

hey julian something is amiss again and i have screwed up your post repost if you like - sorry rick

[rick]

i had sent the 17 k one back long before i decided to roll my own , but i could not tell any difference between my "good?" cheap $10 ones and the 17 k ones at the time , if thats your question answered.

however i did not have a iphone interference problem back when i had the $17k one because nobody had iphones then , but the somewhere along the line with the cables around here only 70% swapped out the iphone issues are all but gone as well , i dunno if its the sheilded power cables ( not all done ) or the new emc frozen xlr cables , (not all done either)

you would think i would do one then the other so i could know whats what , but who knew it was going to work out at all , little lone as well .

i did some testing the other day and i think we have lowered the system noise about 4 db maybe even 5db , so at least the noise you could never hear is harder to hear now :)

[TimS]

Rick, you seen these guys cables - audio/video and power cables!!
their guitar cables are $240 each, power cables start at $350+
http://www.analysis-plus.com/pro_powercable.html

[tweakeasy]

I found it humerous. Tell 'em all to get racked.

On another language front The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility.

As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where! more komplikated changes are possible.

Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.

Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.

By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as
replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensi bl riten styl.

Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.

Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.

:-)

I know that this is an old post, but that's just genius.

I would gladly send a box of Iced Volvos to whoever came up with that.

[tunetown]

I found it humerous. Tell 'em all to get racked.

On another language front The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility.

As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter. There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where! more komplikated changes are possible.

Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.

Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.

By the 4th yer people wil be reseptiv to steps such as
replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensi bl riten styl.

Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.

Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.

:-)

I know that this is an old post, but that's just genius.

I would gladly send a box of Iced Volvos to whoever came up with that.

It came in an email to me many years ago. I kept it, as I also thought it was genius. Some people got way too much time on their hands.

Cheers

[jkhuri44]

that is freekin classic,
i've never seen it before!!!!



sereosly fun shizen.