U47 (tube) hire in Melbourne...

[Virtual Aaron]

for a one mic mono 'old school' bluegrass band recording.
..any suggestions (or alternatives?)

cheers.

[Chris H]

If you can't get a U47, try a good ribbon mic. Also if you want the option you can also use an omni or cardoid as well and have the option of M/S stereo, if you want to use it for a future mix.

[electricsound]

try these guys

http://www.oaklandspro.com.au/06%20-%20 ... 0Hire.html

[Virtual Aaron]

thanks electricsound, I haven't heard of those guys but I'm glad I have now, lotsa cool mics there. I haven't seen a wagner U47 before, made entirely out of authentic U47 spares in sydney right? I wonder if they still sell them?

Chris, A ribbon was an idea I had already, my only experience with them is a Coles 4038 on BV's and elec guitar. Awsome colouration. I wasn't expecting them to be so coloured. A very nostalgic sound without eq, dull and grainy but clear and compressed sounding. Can you suggest any ribbons with a broad spectrum? Are they any good with bass (not talking subs here) I've heared RCA's are the best. Oaklands have an RCA 44BX and 77DX for hire.

I was going to chuck up a RODE K2 in fig 8 to use as an M/S option. It's being recorded in an old hall, and although the band arn't fussed about stereo (none of there favorite records are!) I'm covering that base, if anything, for my own enjoyment in experimentation.

[Kris]

Gunter Wagner makes the Wagner U47. I have one and it was the best investment I ever made in equipment terms. If he is still making them (I think parts became scarce) then go for it. But you will be waiting at least 6 months as they're made one at a time.

[Virtual Aaron]

Hi Kris,
If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost you?
You can PM me if you prefer

[Chris H]

Chris, A ribbon was an idea I had already, my only experience with them is a Coles 4038 on BV's and elec guitar. Awsome colouration. I wasn't expecting them to be so coloured. A very nostalgic sound without eq, dull and grainy but clear and compressed sounding. Can you suggest any ribbons with a broad spectrum? Are they any good with bass (not talking subs here) I've heared RCA's are the best. Oaklands have an RCA 44BX and 77DX for hire.

I was going to chuck up a RODE K2 in fig 8 to use as an M/S option. It's being recorded in an old hall, and although the band arn't fussed about stereo (none of there favorite records are!) I'm covering that base, if anything, for my own enjoyment in experimentation.

I would use the RCA 44 BX. A good one should not sound grainy but will roll off above 12khz or there abouts.The bass response should be great.
With the fig 8 one side will sound a bit different than the other, so you can use that to your advantage.
You need the right preamp (impedance matching) to get the baet results.
I use my byers or optro pres.

The whole experimenting and enjoyment idea is one of the reasons i do this stuff. I spent two years once a month recording an accoustic evening in an old church in outer surburban Cranbourne. Not known for its cultural contribution to Aust music etc but it was a great gig. Many musos from Melbournes session scene in the late 60's and early 70's were regulars.
I would only use two mics.

I found these setups gave me the best results in the church.
2 AKG 451's coincident pair became my regular set up.

An STC 4033 as the mid and an RCA 44 BX as the side when i could borrow the RCA from my mate.

Let us know how it goes. Should be fun

[Virtual Aaron]

Recording happened last Saturday, It became a little more complecated than the initial idea of one or two mics, here's how I ended up doing it.
Venue: Big Old church with tons of natural reverb.
RCA 44BX and Wagner U47 in X-Y positioning for the main vocal mics. (hired from oaklands, thanks for the tip!)
The U47 being in cardiod in the dead zone of the fig 8 ribbon.
Whoever was singing main vox favoured the 47, harmonies the RCA.
Pair of 421's in X-Y below the U47 and 44BX in the same vertical plain to capture accoustic guitar, mandolin, banjo, of the main singers.
To the left of this was a fiddle player mic'ed with a new chinease ribbon (forget the brand)
To the right was a slide dobro who copped a SM57.
Also double bass mic'ed with a RODE K2.
pair of NT5's in front in X-Y for a spatial picture of the group.
And a single NTK half way down the room for the big verb (not that it was that needed, there was reverb in everything, particularly the ribbon, this room was extreamely alive!)
JLM 99v pre for U47 and 44BX
TLA tube pre for 421's, K2, and Fiddle ribbon,
Room mics through the pre's on my RME Fireface.

And how did it sound?
I was very impressed with the seperation I was able to get with this mic array. The U47 was very focused on the main vox, the RCA got very little main vox and plenty of BV's and at times harp, the 421's got the bright ryhthm of the accoustic i was after, the K2 was also quite focused and did a good job on the Bass, but the player keeped on moving so at times it was a little boomy when it ended up around the f-hole. The 57 was perfect for the dobro, and the fiddle, well, it ended up in everything really. When you do a live recording in a live space, every mic is a room mic, so the key is to make the spill usable, by panning the mics in the mix in the same places they acctually were in the room, looking at the band, I was able to get quite an accurate representation. The only thing compressed in the mix was main vox (1176) and double bass (distressor).
I'm quite happy with the result, I just hope that no-one listening to the record thinks that all that reverb is a lexicon!
Anyhow, the bands called Redfish, keep an ear out for it.
Cheers,
~Aaron