How low would you go..

[jkhuri44]

it probably does ring true for music's big demographic, lobotomised youth aged 16-25 no?

[DaleRoyce]

So.. To test a point,

Would everyone be OK with me advertising my mastering services for $40 per track or even $25 per track in your local/industries rag.

No, Its not a consideration, its a hypothetical.

Please continue..

[mylesgm]

advertise whatever you like...

[Manning]

Just for the record - the author is a "her" not a "him".

She's essentially saying "I don't buy albums, therefore the album is dead as a medium". Curiously self-centred and hopelessly wrong.

I heard people say the same thing in 80's about albums v singles - I actually dated a girl once back then who owned hundreds of vinyl singles but not one album (she was bizarrely proud of this).

The only difference now is that people can decide for themselves what individual songs they want via iTunes, whereas in the past it was the artist/record co's decision. Apart from that, not much has really changed. Commercial radio still plays only the same old tired crap just as they did back then. Awful pre-fab bands will dominate the airwaves, and quality stuff will get around via word of mouth.

(Of course the death of the live music industry has resulted in a massive drop-off in the quality of bands, but that's another topic).

[Manning]

So.. To test a point,

Would everyone be OK with me advertising my mastering services for $40 per track or even $25 per track in your local/industries rag.

You wouldn't be the first (although you'd be cheaper)

http://www.studios301.com/mastering/abo ... ng-contact

[audioio]

Check out the comments and almost nobody agrees with him.

But the Age's demographic probably accounts for this. As they used to say (when we had three dailies)...

The Age is for people who don't know what to think.
The Herald is for people who can't think.
The Sun is for people who can't read.

She's essentially saying "I don't buy albums, therefore the album is dead as a medium". Curiously self-centred and hopelessly wrong.

So you have figures to show that? Which is exactly the problem with her article. She sure doesn't look like an economist or statistician to me.

The only difference now is that people can decide for themselves what individual songs they want via iTunes, whereas in the past it was the artist/record co's decision.

True as that observation might be, it doesn't tell us anything about the proportion of consumers of internet-distributed music buying individual tracks or whole albums.

She might take a self-centred position but if there are more people who say the same than those who don't, she'd be probably be right.

[DaleRoyce]

On topic in the Age today:
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/societ ... 1n5dt.html

crappy opinion piece that gets a lot of views because its controversial. Check out the comments and almost nobody agrees with him. And he doesn't sound like much of a music appreciator either so not really my target audience. I say this as I'm currently working on the middle EP of a trilogy of EPs (each with their own focus) that will make a unified whole to be released as a special edition Vinyl pack.

Are you working on the Andrew Loydd Webber version of Lord of the Rings.. The box set..

[Kurt]

It's dead? there is live music every night somewhere. We have more festivals per capita than any other country, the big production companies appear to be doing very well and constantly expanding. Even at the amoeba level I work in I've made my living almost exclusively from live music production for the best part of the last ten years.

I reckon live music's heart is still beating even if you can't find it's pulse.

And, back on topic, I do good deals for people when I feel like it. I don't chase work and I don't offer freebies/cut rates etc as enticements.

Of course the death of the live music industry has resulted in a massive drop-off in the quality of bands, but that's another topic.

[Kurt]

Better than I'd get as a checkout chick, which is all I'm qualified for. Too old and fat for labouring, which pays about the same. Better than I used to get working in "the music industry" pushing boxes around for other people...

i'd do audio work for $25 an hour...beats the shit out of working in a f*ck'n office.

[mylesgm]

Are you working on the Andrew Loydd Webber version of Lord of the Rings.. The box set..

No, it's millivanilli's comeback, an art rock masterpiece...

[Manning]

Of course the death of the live music industry has resulted in a massive drop-off in the quality of bands, but that's another topic.

It's dead? there is live music every night somewhere. We have more festivals per capita than any other country, the big production companies appear to be doing very well and constantly expanding. Even at the amoeba level I work in I've made my living almost exclusively from live music production for the best part of the last ten years.

I reckon live music's heart is still beating even if you can't find it's pulse.

In relative terms it has died. When I was cutting my teeth as a muso in the 80's there were over 700 "proper" band venues in Sydney alone, with over 2000 bands playing them. Without poker machines every pub needed something to entertain the punters and music was the answer. At the age of 18 I was playing 5-7 gigs a week, other musicians were playing 10-15. Thousands of musicians and music techs were making a perfectly livable income playing nothing but music.

As a result the standard of bands has fallen sharply. This is nothing against the players or their (frequently impressive) talent and potential, it's about the lack of opportunity to properly hone their craft.

<end crusty old-timer mode>

[Drumstruck]

Are you working on the Andrew Loydd Webber version of Lord of the Rings.. The box set..

Go and wash your mouth out 10 times with soap for even suggesting such sacrilege - the sad thing is that some *&^% will probably do it.

[Drumstruck]

So.. To test a point,

Would everyone be OK with me advertising my mastering services for $40 per track or even $25 per track in your local/industries rag.

You wouldn't be the first (although you'd be cheaper)

http://www.studios301.com/mastering/abo ... ng-contact

So for $150 per song you get Mr Zervos? Assuming "a song" is 3 minutes and guestimating the pay rate for an engineer of this calibre would be on ....... is it fair to assume your song would get 1 listen and 1 tweak then be handed over to a junior to complete the process? So 6 minutes = 10 songs per hr = $1500 per hr recouped (assuming the booking queue is full). Just speculating here ;-)

[mylesgm]

Are you working on the Andrew Loydd Webber version of Lord of the Rings.. The box set..

Go and wash your mouth out 10 times with soap for even suggesting such sacrilege - the sad thing is that some *&^% will probably do it.

Didn't Peter Jackson do this already?

[Chris H]

Are you working on the Andrew Loydd Webber version of Lord of the Rings.. The box set.. )

Go and wash your mouth out 10 times with soap for even suggesting such sacrilege - the sad thing is that some *&^% will probably do it.

Didn't Peter Jackson do this already?

.....and for the record ( CD, Mp3 download whatever.....) chris hallam never said "Are you working on the Andrew Loydd Webber version of Lord of the Rings.. The box set.." all credit royalties and brownie points go to DaleRoyce for that one!

[ChrisW]

On the live scene......
Around here it's all been-there-done-that mega artists - Dolly Parton (this summer), Steely Dan, Fleetwood Mac, Roxy Music, even Crowded House. hardly the artists of the future.
The way for a musician to make money in Sydney/New South Wales is unquestionably the cover band - Abby Rd/Let It Be, Classic Albums, Taronga Zoo etc.......

On the single track downloads..... I think the article is fine up to a point. The only problem is changing music purchasing from a 'story' to instant gratification. By 'story', I mean the album you bought because you loved the first two singles, then as the months went by you got bored with the hit singles and grew to totally love the second side.... the side with the songs you didn't listen to much at first. These days most people download the hits, and that's it.... no growers, no harder to get into songs that reward much more over time. That's bad for songwriters AND bad for the audience.

On Abbey Road.... of course they've diversified well, into hardware and plug-in licensing, tourism.
The major studio scene was going down long before Guy hands and EMI debacle.
Most people are working at home, with the odd day booked to record strings, maybe drums, maybe some mixing.
The best most historic studios in London have been closing on a regular basis for over ten years. The Townhouse, Wessex, Olympic. Olympic was probably the biggest tragedy outside of Abbey Rd if it ever goes. So many amazing projects made at Olympic. The inside of the studio had been gutted and refurbed many times, but just arriving in Barnes and knowing you were following in the footsteps of so many other amazing artists was pretty exciting.

[Drumstruck]

Are you working on the Andrew Loydd Webber version of Lord of the Rings.. The box set..

Go and wash your mouth out 10 times with soap for even suggesting such sacrilege - the sad thing is that some *&^% will probably do it.

Didn't Peter Jackson do this already?

You got that right!!

Cinematograghy - beautiful
Soundtrack - quite dynamic
Adherance to real storyline - woefully bad and deserving of severe punishment!!

[rick]

So.. To test a point,


So for $150 per song you get Mr Zervos? Assuming "a song" is 3 minutes and guestimating the pay rate for an engineer of this calibre would be on ....... is it fair to assume your song would get 1 listen and 1 tweak then be handed over to a junior to complete the process? So 6 minutes = 10 songs per hr = $1500 per hr recouped (assuming the booking queue is full). Just speculating here ;-)

i reckon you have your sums wrong there , lots of us work about the rate they are charging leon out for
and we all work pretty fast but your numbers are way out me thinks

if the booking queue was full i dont think you would be reading about the great deals

that said first thing i am going to do when we open the new place ( dec/jan ) will be to offer a great deal to get bums on seats and money in the bank

the market will find its on level it always does
its WAY low this year

[DaleRoyce]

Ok peoples..

To clarify.. YES: It was my idea re: the andrew loydd webber lord of the rings concept trilogy extravaganza
box set.

NO: I was not the one that brought up Mr Zervos , or any crazy wish-apon-a-star type work flow
calulations and accompanying clientel to-boot.


But one can only dream

[rick]

hey dale , the great thing about our business is it doesnt pay enough money in the long one to keep anybody but the good guys who are really into it ....into it .. but i am sure we all know that

i tried to cut that above quote up to answer it , but i wasnt sure who actually typed it

I dont know leon very well , but not very well over a long time
but he is a great guy , works hard and has done really well .. he is a true lifer with a career track to aspire to

i dont think anybody really wishes anybody who is a lifer in this business more the the very best !

even his bosses love or hate em , are lifers in the business

there is room for us all
no matter how low they go me thinks

[Manning]

For clarity's sake: I brought up 301 but only to observe that they advertise "by the song" mastering.

I certainly didn't mean to imply any disrespect for Leon or any of the 301 engineers - I have nothing but the highest respect for all of them and sorry if anything I said suggested otherwise.

[Ben M]

http://www.studios301.com/mastering/abo ... ng-contact

So for $150 per song you get Mr Zervos? Assuming "a song" is 3 minutes and guestimating the pay rate for an engineer of this calibre would be on ....... is it fair to assume your song would get 1 listen and 1 tweak then be handed over to a junior to complete the process? So 6 minutes = 10 songs per hr = $1500 per hr recouped (assuming the booking queue is full). Just speculating here ;-)

After having quite a few things mastered at 301 over the years I can say with certainty that juniors or assistants only trim the CD labels, make the coffee, grab the lunches and dub copies. The mastering eng does everything else.
One song can take anywhere between 30mins to 1 hour depending on length and content.

[Drumstruck]

I certainly didn't mean to imply any disrespect for Leon or any of the 301 engineers - I have nothing but the highest respect for all of them and sorry if anything I said suggested otherwise.

Ditto from me - absolutely no disrespect meant.

I was simply making a speculation of how a corporate, such as EMI may workflow, rather than how a small business, such as U&I works. I know from being a PM in the past my time was allocated / tracked in 6 minute blocks and I sub-tasked many things out to other resources.

[mylesgm]

Prime Minister? Didn't know they were known for their musical taste... bwahahaha... I actually have no idea what you meant with PM.

[Chris H]

I certainly didn't mean to imply any disrespect for Leon or any of the 301 engineers - I have nothing but the highest respect for all of them and sorry if anything I said suggested otherwise.

Ditto from me - absolutely no disrespect meant.

I was simply making a speculation of how a corporate, such as EMI may workflow, rather than how a small business, such as U&I works. I know from being a PM in the past my time was allocated / tracked in 6 minute blocks and I sub-tasked many things out to other resources.

Prime Minister? Didn't know they were known for their musical taste... bwahahaha... I actually have no idea what you meant with PM.

.......Private Masseur?

[Text_Edifice]

Production Manager

[Drumstruck]

hahaha isn't jargon wonderful??? good guesses guys but no cigar .... in this case it's Project Manager

[wez]

Would everyone be OK with me advertising my mastering services for $40 per track or even $25 per track in your local/industries rag.

Do whatever you want. But at that price you'll attract the clientele that you deserve. You might as well do it for free.

"Cheap" has more negative connotations than "Free".

Having said that... I've pretty much only ever had two rates - $100 an hour, and free. Neither of those have worked out particularly well for me... so maybe $25 per hour/song is the way to go, who knows.

But the bottom line is you need to get people coming to you for reasons other than price.

[jkhuri44]

music isnt the only area where a business will try and avoid 'cost' as a selling point.....most intelligent businesses try and sell the advantage of the company itself....selling on price creates clients who jump ship like dogs at the next best price.

[Chris H]

music isnt the only area where a business will try and avoid 'cost' as a selling point.....most intelligent businesses try and sell the advantage of the company itself....selling on price creates clients who jump ship like dogs at the next best price.

+1