be!@#$%^& better than SSL?

[smash]

After reading the current AT, ( Back to Front ) one thing jumped out at me...

Uli be!@#$%^&'s challenge to compare one of his ( cheap ) Xenyx mixers to a "100,000 USD SSL"

I was stunned.

One of three things is happening here:

1. Every single person/studio who still uses an SSL is insane, as you could buy one of these mixers with the money you would save from your power bill.

2. The audio industry is a joke, SSL's actually sound horrible and it is only fashion that dictates that 90% of No 1 singles get mixed on one.

3. Mr be!@#$%^& is either deluded, or believes that we are all seriously deaf, and thus cannot hear whatever differences may be there.

Now this may seem some pretty extreme judgements to make, but you have to admit, it's a pretty big call, and seeing as it was said on a public forum, I thought we could debate it here on (this) public forum.

Comments anyone

[smash]

2 Quick comments.

1. This is not meant to be a be!@#$%^& bashing topic - no really.

I am aware that be!@#$%^& make some very acceptable products, their
headphone amps spring to mind, this was merely meant to be a discussion
about a claim made in a magazine that many of us here read.

2. I never realised that the B. word is actually automaticallty censored. I thought that it was something everyone here did as an "in" joke.

I wonder if it works for ProTools / Pro Tools too...

[smash]

I wonder if it works for ProTools / Pro Tools too...

... Nope.

[Andrew]

mwuhhahahahaha....ok well I haven't laughed since, well seeing that video clip of a chicken chasing someone.

but seriously are they comparing on (haven't seen mag yet):
power consumption - behringher probably wins
affordability - be!@#$%^& wins
fits into glovebox - be!@#$%^& wins again
reliabilty/lastability/repairability - be!@#$%^& loo-oo-ooses
sound quality/distortion specs - well I think ssl would be the clear winner

sounding good - (Doesn't start with B) well thats very subjective and while we know the clear winner maybe with the influx of mp3's and other bad sounding things and lack of exposure to good sounding things and a lotof marketing the big majority of bedroom studio's might not hear the difference. Its kindof sad but puts us in a interesting position cause I think people generally know when they hear better sound. Not just recordings but systems/rooms as well.

They may not know why but I guess the question for me is how do people get exposed more to quality sound that they expect it (buy into it) that will hopefully translate into company's making good equipment not getting put out of business cause people will still buy from them and not wilderbeast..er I mean ony-x.

Does this challenge allow us to vote?

[rick]

apparantly my next AT mission is to come up with in 2500 words or less or a simple explanation of how an audio machine can have soul in a way that the great mr golden eared beringer can understand and tell his hardworking scientests how to impliment

when i mentioned to andy stewart the AT editor that one time some monsters figured the best way to see if jewish folks had soul was to weigh them and then instantly kill them and then weigh them every minute or so to see if the soul "left the body" the conclusion at the time was something along the lines of the weight did not change for some days so therefore those poor folks had no soul.
if this is the kind of madness people get up to when they start looking for the soul in something then i think i better stear clear of the task

so we decided that soul is the wrong word for audio gear , and we substituted mojo, magic, vibe, x factor or my personal favourite "it" as in " this box really has it going on "

i dont think i will need 2500 words to set mr beringer straight , maybe the article will read like this

there is no mojo in a product who's only reason for creation is to make money.
it is then simply a consumable good - no more no less :)

[rick]

oh by the way the reason that the b word is censored here is to stop the
full on b users and web sales weasels finding our little corner of the web

[chris p]

Given the various copyright infringement actions and fairly patent (if not always illegal) copying of other people's product (xenyx? give me a break), I wished Andy had challenged Uli about his designers' "soul".

I think the difference between a be!@#$%^& disciple and most of us here at the Turtlerock is the answer to a touchstone question. Is a small improvement in sound worth spending twice the amount of money? The be!@#$%^& empire is built on those who say no. For the rest of us, the answer is a definite yes - we might ask whether we can afford it, but we understand that it is worth it.

That said, I must confess to being a be!@#$%^& customer and even, in the right places, a be!@#$%^& advocate. I own and still use on the original (german made!) headphone amps, and I gig with a be!@#$%^& guitar amp because its practical and sturdy enough to do the job without (and here is Andy's point) me having some emotional connection with it. So if it breaks / gets stolen, I can just replace it without any tears or regrets. My 12 year old cousin was starting off guitar - get a be!@#$%^& amp, I said, and I still stand my recommendation. Its the only amp he'll need for the next 5 years.

But I have ditched ALL be!@#$%^& gear that was is in my recording signal path.

[astrovic]

Reading Uli be!@#$%^&'s emails back to Andy in AT gave me the clear impression he (Uli) is a run-of-the-mill entreprenuer first, everything else second. The fact that his entrepreneurship extends into audio equipment is entirely coincidental - it's clear that for him, "soul" = the balance of his bank account. The higher the bank balance, the more "soul" his gear must have.

He reminds me of a couple of small-scale property developers I dealt with as a young buck, who were sitting in my office chucking to themselves about how much money their developments were going to make, how shithouse the build quality of their projects was and how the joe-blow that would be buying the properties was too dumb to notice the difference. It's an attitude that really shits me.

[astrovic]

But I have ditched ALL be!@#$%^& gear that was is in my recording signal path.

I was just thinking about doing that very thing! I have a be!@#$%^& patchbay which is the sole item - I think it's gotta go...

[smash]

I just saw this....

http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2007/04/ ... er-of.html

Geez !!!

[Kris]

No disrespect to Andy or the guys at AT mag.... but really, he's going to let Uli say whatever he wants as long as he pays the advertising account. Know what I'm saying?

[Thirteen]

Using one or two pieces of Deadringer gear on a project is one thing, but I can't imagine trying to mix a project if every channel was recorded through their stuff - it would be like trying to bake a cake in a microwave.

[Mark Bassett]

Soul? What about Jungian psychlogy of an audio machine......could be interesting.

What is in the SSL's shadow?

What is in the be!@#$%^&'s shadow?

anema
anemus

[rick]

lets just quickly clear something up
that article in at was written by chris holder
chris owns the mag
and he is the guy that gets sued if mr b is unhappy with the print
not andy stewart
andy wrote the neil young article

neil youngs studio is the one i would rather read about and spend my time talking about
dont waste your breath on beringer - life is too short

[astrovic]

neil youngs studio is the one i would rather read about and spend my time talking about

oh yeah!!! What a great article and an amazing place. I'm only up to the bit where they turned everything up to 10 and heard nothing.

What are the odds that everyone will now be surrounding their studios with forest of redwoods for that ambience? :)

[wez]

i doubt Mr B has even been in the same room as an SSL, let alone worked on one.

i'm sure he's looked at a schematic though...

[Andrew]

Just got the mag & about halfway through Neil Young's article, sounds quite amazing the whole setup and way things are done...read the b article and now understand what everyones on about. Rick I might seriously have a listen to some of better car stuff, although I usually drive with no sound system on.

[Roy]

I loved that Neil Young article! I was so hoping to see some photos of Neil Young's studio. Even more now that it's not allowed. That'd be an amazing dude to have a beer with!

Uli, on the other hand would have me in stitches, rolling around on the ground in laughter if I had a few drinks with him and listened to him fully believing and telling me how be!@#$%^& is the highest quality sound you can get because their developers try hard! I'd have tears in my eyes.

Their focus is money and world domination- not pristine sound quality. Which I totally accept and I'm fine with. And I believe there is a place for be!@#$%^& in this world- but as I don't stand for the same things as be!@#$%^&... it's just not in my studio.