Lets talk solar - and get our heads out of the sand!

[Drumstruck]

This is so cheery - and I'm listening to Pantera lamenting the end of the world (well, sort of....).

[Manning]

This will cheer you up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzQWLSYxa90

[Drumstruck]

This will cheer you up:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzQWLSYxa90

That did!!

So back on topic - it's getting cold and I don't want to use electricity, so I got this alpaca blanket that was once grown on a creature that ate plants that used solar energy to photosynthesise and create energy - so is the blanket a battery?

[The Tasmanian]

I think most of us will be running solar for our studios power within a few years.
Energy prices must sky rocket.

[Sammas]

I think most of us will be running solar for our studios power within a few years.
Energy prices must sky rocket.

I used to work in Solar. It's an odd industry. It seems it grows and shrinks relative to the amount of government incentives available. A few years ago it was quite enticing in NSW. Between 20 cents to 40 cents a kilowatt that you feed back into the grid, and sizable discounts on the system based on selling on the carbon credits you gained when installing the system. When the state government pulled the pin on rebates, etc most NSW based companies started chasing business in QLD, SA, ACT & WA.

Last I heard, its down to 6 to 8 cents a kilowatt in NSW. I think some people can benefit still from solar - like if you install a system to offset your daytime power usage. Even then, you are probably looking at a good decade or so to recoup the money you invested in the system. I know my boss was looking at a 10kw system, but because things only happen here in the evening, it was a $50k investment with very little return.

[The Tasmanian]

Its heaps cheaper now - return in 6-7 years if not sooner if power prices go much higher
As far as power companies, why sell it back to them for almost nothing and have to buy it back at the market price at night when you need it?
Your own battery storage means you never get caught up in all those scams. power costs you nothing.
Even if I was back in the middle of the city I would attempt to go off grid.

[Ausrock]

Lets talk solar - and get our heads out of the sand!
............Yeah, right.

While I am absolutely for alternate energy sources, I would like someone to show unequivocal figures for the overall costs of the batteries required for back up in these systems........ie: the real cost of producing these batteries including the impact this production has on the "environment, etc. The cost of replacing these batteries when required, etc., etc. Weigh it all up and then see if these "systems" are really such an attractive proposition.

Until wind and solar alternatives become truely practical and affordable, we are going to be stuck with power generated by burning fossil fuels and unfortunately, I suspect that the (biggish) companies behind the alternative energy sources will keep the entry costs as high as possible for as long as possible just as the "fossil fuel" companies will do.

[Sammas]

Its heaps cheaper now - return in 6-7 years if not sooner if power prices go much higher
As far as power companies, why sell it back to them for almost nothing and have to buy it back at the market price at night when you need it?
Your own battery storage means you never get caught up in all those scams. power costs you nothing.
Even if I was back in the middle of the city I would attempt to go off grid.

A PV system might last 20 years. Adding a battery bank to it large enough to take a modern house of the grid might double the required investment, and possibly require replacement in 7 years time.

Don't get me wrong, I love solar power... but its never a case of power costing your nothing. I actually think solar companies are more ruthless and more unethical to deal with than traditional power suppliers.

[The Tasmanian]

15 years with the right batteries and care.

[Ben M]

We bought our system 7 years ago when prices weren't as low (there's plenty of power in them to power a modern home with responsible power users and no air conditioners)
The battery bank cost $7K. I'd expect to replace them in another 7 years time with battery technology that will be far better (and smaller). Our panels had a 25 year warranty.

[ChrisW]

Besides the concept of going completely solar, I can see very little reason to not go part time solar.
We are one of the few houses locally that has solar hot water. Probably about 350 days of the year we don't use any electricity to heat our water. You really only need to turn on the booster after a couple of cold, grey days. If more people, or most people, went down that road, we'd all be spending a lot less on fossil fuels.
I came here in 2005, from a country where you rarely see the sun, even in Summer. I was gobsmacked to see the 2 mile long coal trains pulling into the local power station. My electricity prices have gone up about 40% in the last five years. If any government helped people go solar instead of making it more expensive, more difficult, we'd all be paying less money and conserving our resources. It's feels like a no brainer to me.
The highest usage times on the Aussie grid are very hot days and Christmas. Don't tell me widespread solar power couldn't reduce that extreme load on the victorian era power sources.
Sure, at night and in the darkest winter days we can burn a bit more gas, oil and coal.

[The Tasmanian]

I was thinking the other day, buy a HDX system? - or buy a solar system (build a power station) for less money?

[ChrisW]

As the saying goes...
'You have to spend money to make money'.

[jkhuri44]

solaR uptake rates in australia are getting higher as power costs go up. was reading or watching something about it recently.

[Kurt]

It's definitely on the list for me. After lots of other stuff on said list...

solaR uptake rates in australia are getting higher as power costs go up. was reading or watching something about it recently.

[Vic]

Well, after waiting for many months our 4kw solar panels were installed yesterday and turned on today. From 1pm when it was switched on until sunset we generated 16kw.

So, I can start testing and monitoring our usage and generation.

Here's a pic.

The door you see on the left is into the control room and the door on the right is into the live room (this will be enclosed in the next week).

Vic

[smash]

I honestly don't understand why you would bother using batteries at all, unless you had a genuine need to be totally self sufficient / off the grid?

Surely, by simply adding any excess energy that you may produce to the grid, and simply draining from the grid in periods of low generation, has got to be much better for the environment. Batteries need to be manufactured - which causes pollution, as well as shipping them, and they are also not 100% efficient either.

Seems pretty simple to me...

Simon "Smash" Ashby

[Sammas]

I honestly don't understand why you would bother using batteries at all, unless you had a genuine need to be totally self sufficient / off the grid?

Surely, by simply adding any excess energy that you may produce to the grid, and simply draining from the grid in periods of low generation, has got to be much better for the environment. Batteries need to be manufactured - which causes pollution, as well as shipping them, and they are also not 100% efficient either.

Seems pretty simple to me...

Simon "Smash" Ashby

I suppose there could be an argument raised that 5 or 7 years of batteries have inherently less pollution compared to the 5 or 7 years of sucking power from a predominately coal-driven power grid.

Financially, it varies a lot as well. Some systems were installed under schemes that pay 60 cents a kilowatt for any power fed back into the grid. Others pay as low as 6 to 12 cents a kilowatt. If you are selling low during generation, then buying back at 2, 3 or 4 times the price during periods of peak consumption the prospect of battery storage could become quite enticing.

[Vic]

I guess the reasons why people decide to go with solar that feeds into the grid or solar that runs on batteries has to do with their personal situation.

We opted for a system that feeds into the grid.

When we first started researching it several years ago when the buy back tariff was over 60c/kw, a solar system of this size cost over $30000 then when we priced it when the buy back tariff was 20 odd cents per kw the same system was $16000 now that the buy back tarriff is only 6c we purchased the same solar system for $5500.

So we get little money for energy we send back to the grid, but it is something. It also means we aren’t in debt for the solar system.

We are currently building a studio, working on full time art installation projects, raising a child, establishing an arts centre and the decision not to go to batteries was really basically about we didn’t feel like we were able to manage that at this point in time.

In the future and especially as battery technology changes, that might change, who knows.

So really our decision was about what fit in with our lives at the present moment. Either decision contributes something to having a future less reliant on fossil fuels.

We can disconnect our system from the grid whenever we like.

So, the argument that batteries are pointless when you can opt to feed into the grid or that feeding into the grid is a negative because you are still supporting fossil fuel manufacturing are both arguments that really ignore the personal situation of the purchaser of solar power.

Both are viable options that contribute towards a sustainable planet and both options will change further over time.

Wouldn’t it be great if our electricity sub stations were all community solar power banks where a neighbourhood could store its excess energy for other community members to use or to use at a later date.

[Sammas]

I just perused your studio build thread on GS, Vic. Looks amazing!

[Vic]

Thanks Nath,

It's been a long three year build but so close now, oh so close

I am really very happy with it though.

Vic

[Ben M]

Nice work Vic!




Batteries don't need much management though. Just 30 minutes a few times a year to refill with demineralised water and check with a hydrometer (little or no management for the gel batteries).
Life cycle of the modern solar battery is 10-15 years. 10 or less if neglected and 15 if you do as above.

Things could work out very nicely for you if you had a some sweet switching between when you actually needed grid power and when you could work off your batteries. Most modern inverters and regulators have this built-in and ready to rock.

All the very best with it mate.

[Vic]

Hey Ben,

That's a great idea. I'm going to look into it right now

Vic