USB overload madness..what are you using?

[The Tasmanian]

Ive got a growing problem with my macbook pro - as each year goes on, I seem to be needing more USB ports to run many external devices.
>> Iloks, USB3.0 drives, Moog Minitaur, RME babyface with Mytek 8x192 on lightpipe + midi I/O, Maschine, Octotrack, mouse, external keyboard and the odd thumb drive... USB crazy shit!
Apart from running the RME off one USB port for audio I/O & midi tightness, the rest need to come off a powered hub.
I'll probably put a 7200 audio drive in the CD bay to eliminate data streaming via USB - and reduce the load.
I dont want to max out the USB bus - nor have latency issues
Is anyone else in this situation?
If so - what are you using?
is it reliable?

[mylesgm]

don't know about the usb thing but instead of a 7200rpm drive get yourself an SSD drive. bit smaller in capacity but much faster. I've got one mounted in the drive bay and it works great.

[The Tasmanian]

Good point Myles -
..although - constant backing up is needed on these SSD's - a bit scarey compared to hard drives.... special care needed when using them on clients projects.

[Linear]

Short term I'd reckon that a SSD drive is much more reliable than a normal hard drive. No moving parts, no chance of it turning into a coffee grinder.

Long term though, I'd say less reliable, especially if not powered up.

As was discussed in that Economist article, SSD's are great for immediate data exchange and capture, Hard drives are great when you need infrequent access to lots of data, Tape is best for long term archival storage.

Chris

[Drumstruck]

Also have a MPB with a heap of external USB and f/w doovers Chris and did a connection cleanup just before xmas.... the sol'n that works for me is:

1/ mini 4 port hub for iLoks - a few $s - this makes it easy to have all the iLoks on one low traffic connection - connectivity and power from one of your slowest ports for this

2/ mBeat Super speed 7 port powered USB hub - that was about $30 well spent - each port is powered so it doesn't draw on the USB bus - I have connected to this hub a MIDI kb, MIDI mallet, DVR HD, KVM switch, 2TB backup drive - use a USB3 port for this if you have it

3/ Expresscard34 USB3 dongle for 2 x USB3 2TB drives of samples

With thunderbolt port connection to recording drive + mixer and another USB port dedicated to control surface I have one spare USB port on the MBP

[The Tasmanian]

Awesome - thanks Ian
just the info I need , although I'm pre thunderbolt.
On my way to a stable USB crowding.

That Mbeat7 is amazing! really impressed with the switching Idea, as most of the time only a few external devices are used at once, and this will save traffic jams by switching off what is not in use, and leave all plugged in.
Great tip!
Cheers
CT

[The Tasmanian]

One question though - I'm on s l o w USB 2 older MBP, trying to milk a few more years out of it. (still on PooTools 9!)
I cant find info on the 4xUSB 3.0 ports - can I plug USB 2.0 into these 4 ports?
I presume its all the same format for data, except the speed will always be @ USB 2.0 = 480Mbps.
Is this correct?

[rightintheface]

I'm in exactly the same position Chris, let us know how you go with it!

[Text_Edifice]

Have you looked into an express card solution? That would give you a separate usb bus and might be a good way to squeeze a but more life out of your mbp.

[The Tasmanian]

So Dave - would the express give me faster speed than USB 2.0 - able to match 3.0 speed?

[Text_Edifice]

I'm assuming you're on a similar model to mine - something like this http://www.sonnettech.com/product/usb3e ... ard34.html will give you a usb 3 port or two.

On your existing port you'll be limited to usb 2 speeds with a usb 3 hub but it should otherwise work fine.

[The Tasmanian]

Thanks Dave - looks like it will - awesome.
So Ians advice to get both is spot on. Thank you!
Now I can get 2 x USB 3.0 off the express, plus add the mbeat7 to have 8, then keep 2 spare UBS 2.0 slots on the MBP.
10 all up !!!!

The only thing that has always worried me about the express cards is the way it all hangs off the side of the computer. Need to find an extension chord for it so that it can be tucked away safe where it wont get bumped.

Is anyone using a cable extending an express card?

[audioio]

The only thing that has always worried me about the express cards is the way it all hangs off the side of the computer. Need to find an extension chord for it so that it can be tucked away safe where it wont get bumped.

It depends how far the express card protrudes. Sounds as though the one you're wanting to use does a lot.

Also, where's the actual USB<->PCI machinery? Is it in the bit the goes inside the Macbook, or is it in the bit outside. I'm not aware that anyone makes a USB interface that plugs into a generic ExpressCard, or even if a generic ExpressCard is available. That said, the EC adaptor for my Magma PCI chassis might be just that, because the chassis is really just an extension of the PCI bus. But other than the Magma chassis (plural), there aren't any other vendors making devices that attach to them AFAIK.

[Text_Edifice]

Chris - there's a couple on the market that sit flush, like this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Port-Super-Sp ... 1369634713

I reckon do a bit of checking of customer reviews but should be able to get something low profile that you're not going to bump / pull out.

[The Tasmanian]

The TRock brains trust comes through again!!
> thanks gentleman - great advice that I could not find elsewhere.

[Drumstruck]

A few cautions.....

- the USB3 drives that I have connected through my express card say that they are running at USB3 but when I dig deeper thay are running 480/sec, so it's not full USB3 speed.....

Only a few cards provide USB power as well as USB connectivity.

I have a Sonnet ExpressCard/34 2 port card (no USB power output) that you can have - PM me your details and I'll post it over.

[The Tasmanian]

Thanks Ian - kind offer!
although - I might move on Dave's suggestion - as I get 5 gigs / sec !!! on 2 ports - then add the mbeat7 as you suggested.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-Port-Super-Sp ... 1369634713
If this works as suggested - makes my older lappy act like it has taken viagra...
If all fails - I'll take you up on that offer.
Cheers!

[Text_Edifice]

I reckon do a bit of searching before you buy - if some cards don't supply power that's a big pain in the arse.

[The Tasmanian]

Good point Dave about power not coming out of the express card slot - did not enter my mind.

But is there any need for power if I add the mbeat7 (external power) to the 2 Port Super-Speed USB 3.0 ExpressCard 34 ?
Ahhh bugger - there is so much confusion around these express cards working properly....
At least the Mbeat 7 will sort out my collection of USB gadgets. Get me going at least

I'd be quite OK with USB2.0 on all of my stuff - should be no problem if I avoid hanging any drives off it.
Probably better off using FW drives and an extra internal drive for data, and simplify the USB demands...

So - Ian, how are you getting around the drive power issue with Expresscard34 USB3 dongle for 2 x USB3 2TB drives of samples?
And is it stable?

[Text_Edifice]

I think it's just a matter of asking the ebay seller the question - the soonettech one I linked to above reckons it supplies power http://www.sonnettech.com/product/usb3e ... ard34.html and I think think the ebay one is a pretty similar spec / design so it might be fine. If it doesn't do power then you just add a hub.

[The Tasmanian]

searching for reviews :-
*The Mac OS X driver for this card does not support USB 2.0 and USB 1.1 devices. iPods, iPhones, USB 3.0 hubs and non-storage devices are not supported.
Mac: MacBook Pro (with ExpressCard slot) supports only USB 3.0 storage devices and Sonnet and Lexar USB 3.0 CompactFlash/SD readers*

it all seems a bit iffy these express cards... and a format that seems to be disappearing fast.

Mbeat7 solves all my external equipment issues really well with individual on/off switches for each device.
For all audio - internal drives and external FW800 drives.

[Drumstruck]

Stability on my setup is solid - no speed or connectivity issues other than those limited by the h/w itself - there are a few bootup order "rules" that makes running smoother..... you probably have similar processes with your setup....

A bit of planning based on priority, power consumption and I/O capacity had my setup laid out:
- the mixer (control surface) got a dedicated USB2 port on the MBP
- the samples drive needed maximum speed so it got the Express slot and a dedicated wall wart power supply
- the mBeat got another USB2 port on the MBP leaving one USB2 port free

then on the mBeat:
- 2 x MIDI devices only need low I/O speed + power so they got USB2 ports
- DVR HD is USB2 so it got the last USB2 port
- iLok, eLicencer, KVM got USB3 ports as they need power but don't produce much traffic

(fyi all DAW<->DAW HD<->mixer audio traffic is firewire over thunderbolt)


The powered Express cards are a better all round option if you're running USB3 devices that require 5v (e.g. external HDs) - you get an extra dongle that provides the power from one of your other USB2 ports. I have one of the Oyen cards that works well.

The non-powered Express cards will still run things like MIDI kbs, iLoks etc - just the "low" power devices. The other one I have is a Sonnet that works well, but does not provide sufficient power for external drives.

It is worth checking if any of your external devices support specific Express cards too. You're right about it being a disappearing format - it's just a way to get some USB3 speed from our MBPs.

NOTE that adding a hub to provide power for an unpowered Express card won't work in all instances - it does not work with the EastWest powered USB3 drives.

[The Tasmanian]

geez Ian - you have a complex set-up.. makes my USB issues look like kiddie's play

[gigpiglet]

i always think that…. ill post this "really hard and totally unique" problem..
and three people come back with - yeah thats easy i just do this for my massive issue.
funny how (in life in general) if you don't ask - you don't know!
you are not alone!

[The Tasmanian]

Yeah Gareth, that's what makes this forum so great - people are doing stuff, as opposed to talking about new gear.
We are all trying our hardest to get the best out of what we have.
This forum is such a fine collection of professionals with skills across a broad spectrum.
From techs/engineers/mixers/producers/radio and TV techs and operators/live mixing/ musicians etc etc.

Its nice to know when you have an issue that the brains trust here come together to help sort out each others tech dilemma's - especially as technology is changing at such a rapid pace these days,
the can of worms gets bigger...

[ether]

Having mostly just completed a massive range of selling off of things I don't need, I can 100% recommend making everything as simple as possible (but no simpler!).

Everyone has a different take on things, but I couldn't be happier with the minimal setup I'm now using - 99% MIDI and USB free!

[The Tasmanian]

I wish I could simplify my set up - but as time goes on, every project I work on requires radically different working methods and approaches that often demand completely different hardware, software and outcomes each time.
It used to be so simple... I now need to have a totally eclectic set-up to tackle all the different scenarios.

Not very good at all for a simple lean set-up - but nice to get away from always manipulating the same set of tools.
Keeps me on my toes too..