Studio build/thoughts on mud brick

[wez]

First of all - who would like to see a Studio Build section added to the forum? Obviously anyone doing a build will spend a lot of time at John Sayers' and similar sites, but there's a lot of (trusted) expertise and experience here too that could be collated into a separate category.

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So, I'm about to start on a ground-up build.

I've been planning to start a thread and ask the collective brains trust a bunch of questions for a while now, but to be honest the drawings, reading, planning, researching, consulting and costing has been so overwhelming I don't know where to start or what to ask first!

Anyway… I'm at the preliminary drawings stage of building a studio next to my house. I will be knocking down an existing tin shed, pouring a new slab and constructing something approximately 9x7m in size. I say approximately, as it will be an irregular shape, in order to make best use of the available wedge-shaped space.

I have been designing this thing in my head for over 20 years. But now that it's real, I'm feeling an enormous amount of pressure to get it right. I totally get that you have to build 3 or 4 studios before you really know what you're doing… but this will almost certainly be my first and last chance to do it. I am on a mission to learn from the mistakes of others!

I say 'studio', but the longer I think about it, the clearer the vision becomes… and I don't think I'm actually building a studio at all. I did have grand plans to build the classic control room/live room/iso booth, floating floor, rooms-in-a-room studio - with enough space for rehearsals, and storing all my stuff. But the more I think of it, I have realised that what I want is just a big space, a big music room - that I can set up for recording or mixing as required - but will mostly be a place to write, play and create. I'm fully committed to getting the external structure right first, especially in terms of sound attenuation. Then I'll live with the big open space for a bit - maybe leaving it there, maybe building a separate live room later, maybe even doing the full studio fit out. But keeping my options open. Everyone tells me that I'll probably just love the big open space so much that I'll never want to change it, and I think they might be right.

Anyway, I've just got the first set of drawings back from the draftsman, and I need to start thinking about specifics. So the question that I want to put to the forum today is this - how do we feel about mud bricks or pressed earth?

I had originally planned to make it weatherboard to match the house (ie weatherboards/yellow tongue/split frame/yellow tongue/gyprock), but since at least one wall (and probably 2) will need to be brick anyway, why not go full brick... and if I go full brick, why not mud brick? The more I look into it, the better it seems - I could potentially build double layer, load bearing walls, removing the need for framing and plastering. In fact I wonder if I could even get away with a single wall!? Doubling up might even be overkill… although it's worth noting that I have a neighbours' bedroom very close to the boundary side, and I'd much rather overdo that aspect than underdo it.

Mud brick seems to be almost too good to be true - what am I missing?

[Chinagraf]

Mud bricks are awesome, but if you're gonna make the bricks you'd wanna get on to it before it gets too close to winter, they take about a month to dry in decent weather.

[Senad]

First of all - who would like to see a Studio Build section added to the forum?

Me

Mud brick seems to be almost too good to be true - what am I missing?

What's the cost comparing to the ordinary brick?
In my last build I used solid cement bricks (double) for the outer walls. About 10 years ago now, but back then I got them for 30c a piece. ($4500 worth of bricks) Can't see them being more than 50c now.

Good luck mate. You're at the start of an exciting journey, and I can't wait for the build thread to start.

[The Mill]

Mud bricks are great because they're heavy, irregular(ish) and aesthetically pleasing.

I've been working in a 'Big Room' for quite some time now down here at The Mill and it's great, but the overdub booth area, which is still not finished, is something worth having for sure, particularly if you don't want to spend the rest of your life tracking in headphones. That can be a real drag sometimes I find.

I agree that the big room is very nice to work in though, but I would urge you to reconsider building a big room for everything. It can be limiting in more ways than you might imagine. Can you add an overdub booth outside those existing measurements at all?

Good luck anyway...

[Drumstruck]

First of all - who would like to see a Studio Build section added to the forum?

Me too!!

Mud brick seems to be almost too good to be true - what am I missing?

The effort - this is a big factor - you will be fit, you will be muddy, and you will be tired ;-)

Another option to consider is a rammed earth wall.....


I'm planning to commence a similar project in a year or so, but am thinking Besser blocks for side and rear walls and double glazed front wall (imagine a pentagonal amphitheatre facing across the pool and down the paddock..... palm trees, deck chairs..... ahhhh). Also considering relocating an old church or hall if I can find one when the time comes.....

Go wez!! A photo / video expose of the project would be excellent ;-)

[wez]

Thanks so much for the early advice and enthusiasm! I was almost too scared to share the build publicly, I thought I might just get too much confusing, conflicting advice (well I'm sure I will at some stage!) But instead I'm feeling like it will really help me to crystallize the vision.

(imagine a pentagonal amphitheatre facing across the pool and down the paddock..... palm trees, deck chairs..... ahhhh).

Now THAT's a design! Not many palm trees here sadly.

The effort - this is a big factor - you will be fit, you will be muddy, and you will be tired ;-)

Well a mud brick is roughly the weight of a decent bicep curl for me, and since I probably won't have time to get to the gym... ;-)

Another option to consider is a rammed earth wall.....

yep, looking into that as well.

A photo / video expose of the project would be excellent ;-)

For sure, I've always enjoyed following other people's builds, so I guess it's my turn! I'm a bit daunted by the whole project management thing, but I've got plenty of good advice on tap.

I agree that the big room is very nice to work in though, but I would urge you to reconsider building a big room for everything. It can be limiting in more ways than you might imagine. Can you add an overdub booth outside those existing measurements at all?.

Hey Andy, I was hoping you'd chime in... like most of us I watched your build with great interest. In fact I've got a pic of your room open in another tab right now for inspiration!

I've got preliminary drawings for a couple of studio layout options - the big open space is designed to be divided into a control room and live room down the track if I decide to do that - and there's more than enough room (total area is around 45-50 m2). I guess what I have to decide is whether or not to just bite the bullet and incorporate a dividing wall (I'm moving away from the floating room paradigm) into the initial plan, or build it later - pros and cons for each approach. But I'll definitely take that on board - I hate headphones too!

What's the cost comparing to the ordinary brick?

Still early days on costings but around $3 a brick I think. I'm informed that it's pretty comparable to regular brick, although obviously a lot more than concrete. But the budget is there, and the aesthetics are pretty important to me - it has to add as much value to the house as possible, and I'm loving the idea of not having to plaster. I've been talking with my good friend Dave McCluney about this quite a bit, and I've come around to the idea that it needs to be a comfortable, relaxed, creative place - that's where good work comes from. Up until recently I had been preoccupied with technical details, obsessing over the room ratios and nailing the acoustics. Whilst I'm still mindful of those things, it's never going to be a commercial facility - I have to accept that it's essentially a man cave with a tape machine and a console.

[simonstav]

If you want weatherboard why not do brick inside and a weatherboard facade on the outside? I am doing a factory(studio) build at the moment and one wall, the site retaining wall, is core filled concrete block and it was cheap and quick to go up now I am thinking I should have done the whole thing in concrete block instead of solid red bricks. Probably only on the 2 boundary sides as it doesn't look as good as the solid reds which is what the house is but it went up fast!

[simonstav]

FWIW it cost just under $1800 for 800 bricks and $5 each to lay.

Edit; just to clarify this was for 380x190x190 concrete blocks

[Senad]

There seems to be a few studios being built at the moment. Where are all the build threads guys, c'mon.

http://www.mudbrickcircus.com.au/mudbrickpricelist
The 250mm thickness is PLENTY for what you want to do Wez. It would be ideal to have two leaves of mass with an air space between them + those leaves constructed from variety of materials (sound breaks up easier when travelling through different mediums), but with the single 250mm thick mud brick wall, your only issue could be drum kit recording. However, that's easily taken care of by building a floating drum booth of about 8-9m2 inside your 60+m2 room, should you realise it's an issue when you start working in there.

EDIT: I just realize now you're talking about 50m2 all up..I was going by original 9x7 you mentioned in the first post.

[Drumstruck]

Regarding the big room approach - I also like that idea and have 5 gobos on casters that butt together to form a wall that separates my "studio" from "control room" (poetic licence used here). These might give you some internal design ideas..... also usable as a mobile drum booth and general baffling - pics below - these ones are about 7feet tall and 5feet wide - laminated glass on top half / batts and acoustic foam inside the bottom half (plus extra acoustic foam attached to the bottom half now):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/991 ... 0front.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/991 ... 20rear.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/991 ... 20side.jpg


hmmmm project manager - I was a PM for 5 years.... and an architect for 10..... perhaps there's fame and fortune to be made in the studio build world..... (ha!)

[wez]

If you want weatherboard why not do brick inside and a weatherboard facade on the outside?

Well I don't particularly want weatherboard, it's just that i thought bricks would look incongruous against the house... mud bricks on the other hand - especially with a lime or white rendering - would look awesome.

Concrete blocks are cheap and practical to a point, but they're not for me.

with the single 250mm thick mud brick wall, your only issue could be drum kit recording. However, that's easily taken care of by building a floating drum booth of about 8-9m2 inside your 60+m2 room, should you realise it's an issue when you start working in there.

My thoughts exactly.

Regarding the big room approach - I also like that idea and have 5 gobos on casters that butt together to form a wall that separates my "studio" from "control room"

Now that could work. One suggestion I've had (hey Myles) involves the use of movable partitions or walls... definitely worth considering.

perhaps there's fame and fortune to be made in the studio build world..... (ha!)

Sure, what with the studio business being such a lucrative earner ;-) Note to self... don't get involved in a business in which your clients have even less money than you do. Again.

[Ben M]

Hi Wez
I built our house and studio/guest accom with mud brick. In fact with mud brick, timber, steel and lots of glass...

I'd definitely encourage you to build with it. It's a great building material. I'm also happy to offer any advice/answer any questions if you need it.

I'd also like to see a studio build thread on here.

Best of luck with the build.

cheers

[wez]

Hi Wez
I built our house and studio/guest accom with mud brick. In fact with mud brick, timber, steel and lots of glass...

I'd definitely encourage you to build with it. It's a great building material. I'm also happy to offer any advice/answer any questions if you need it.

I'd also like to see a studio build thread on here.

Best of luck with the build.

cheers

Cheers Ben. Is it a timber frame or are the bricks load-bearing? I'm very keen to do the latter.

[Ben M]

Cheers Ben. Is it a timber frame or are the bricks load-bearing? I'm very keen to do the latter.

I designed ours as a structural steel frame and put the roof on first before laying any bricks.
The reason behind doing it this way was to;
A. to keep the weather off the mud bricks/mortar for more even drying (not fast or slow drying...)
B. to keep the weather (sun and rain and etc) off us as we built the walls up.
C. To be able to get on with other build jobs that didn't involve laying mud bricks.

I have to say, I know a lot of muddies like to do load bearing but I'm really glad I did it the way I did. There was never a day off due to the weather and we stayed protected from the elements while getting on with the build.

[Hookemeister]

I'm at the preliminary drawings stage of building a studio next to my house

Hi Wez,

while you're in the preliminary stage and before you commit to setting out the slab, put some thought into optimising the room ratios, one of the most important steps in a studio build. Think ahead, calculate the the dimensions that will give you the optimal distribution of room modes and you'll save yourself a lot of headaches later on.

I designed ours as a structural steel frame and put the roof on first before laying any bricks.

Some good advice from Ben, but I'd suggest taking it one step further if you can afford it.

Build your facility within, but not attached to the steel frame and roof. So in other words you will have 2 roof sections that are not structurally connected. Now your studio will be free from impact noise when ever it rains.

If you can't afford to do that, let me know and I'll give you some advice on how to deal with impact noise.

Hope this helps

[wez]

Hey Greg, thanks for your thoughts.

I'd worked out the room ratios months before I engaged the draftsman ;-) The building will be an irregular shape, with a vaulted ceiling, so actually calculating it all out would be pretty tricky. I do have plans drawn up for control room/live room/iso etc (all thoroughly calculated), but I won't actually be building any internal rooms until I hear how the open space sounds, and get a feel for the building and how I'm ACTUALLY going to use it... as opposed to how I THINK I might use it!

Regarding the roof, and taking on both your comments and Ben's... I think the roof-first approach makes a lot of sense, is very practical, and will make things much easier... and is probably not the way I'll do it. This may be one of those bits of advice that I'll regret ignoring... but I just can't get with the idea of the final vision being dictated purely by the desire to make things a bit easier during the build. The building will be there long after the challenges of the construction have faded into distant memories.

My specific thinking being - 1) Bricks will not be made on site. 2) Rain? Well maybe I'm about to jinx the whole thing by saying this, but around here 'rain' has become more of a concept than an actual environmental phenomenon. 3) One of the major advantages of mud brick is not having to have a frame, that's kind of why I'm using it.

Of course, when we get an unseasonal monsoon in the middle of the build, you'll be the first to know about it!

As for impact noise... well, see point 2 above! But seriously, there will be a substantial amount of insulation and mass under the (colourbond) roof, and remembering that this is not a commercial facility, I don't think that's going to be a problem.

OK, next... doors and windows!

[Drumstruck]

Does anyone use those glass bricks? Wondering how much insulation they offer?

[Senad]

The colorbond roof of my house has 55mm anti-con blanket right under it and then I have 6" of insulation bats on my ceiling. With a few hail storms we had in the last 2 years, I can tell you that minimal amount of noise, if any, comes through the roof. The insulation I'm talking about was pretty cheap too.

[simonstav]

Does anyone use those glass bricks? Wondering how much insulation they offer?

Hey Ian

I am looking at doing one whole wall section on my factory build out of acoustic/fire rated glass bricks.

http://www.obeco.com.au/firerated.html

STC data for glass bricks available here

http://www.obeco.com.au/downloads/technical/technical_data.pdf

[simonstav]

The colorbond roof of my house has 55mm anti-con blanket right under it and then I have 6" of insulation bats on my ceiling. With a few hail storms we had in the last 2 years, I can tell you that minimal amount of noise, if any, comes through the roof. The insulation I'm talking about was pretty cheap too.

Just sorting roof insulation blanket out with my factory/studio build now. Roof plumber recommended this Rhino blanket product but Bunnings have exactly the same product manufactured by Earthwool for $80 a bag (18m2) as opposed to the $120 the plumbing supply place were quoting us.

[wez]

Does anyone use those glass bricks? Wondering how much insulation they offer?

My perfunctory research into glass bricks/blocks suggests that they're pretty good, and if you double up on them then it's a viable option. I don't really care much for the look, but in terms of getting light in but maintaining privacy, they could work.

[Senad]

The colorbond roof of my house has 55mm anti-con blanket right under it and then I have 6" of insulation bats on my ceiling. With a few hail storms we had in the last 2 years, I can tell you that minimal amount of noise, if any, comes through the roof. The insulation I'm talking about was pretty cheap too.

Just sorting roof insulation blanket out with my factory/studio build now. Roof plumber recommended this Rhino blanket product but Bunnings have exactly the same product manufactured by Earthwool for $80 a bag (18m2) as opposed to the $120 the plumbing supply place were quoting us.

Hey Simon,
My roofing quote was about $800 extra with the 55mm blanket comparing to just the "wall wrap" blue foil stuff specified in the plans, so I wouldn't say what they used is expensive stuff at all. I say, go for the cheaper option, as it's all pretty similar stuff.

[simonstav]

The rhino blanket which is what the plumber recommended was $125 trade price to him, the same type of product from bunnnings in Earthwool brand was $75 so I order 25 rolls of 18m2 from them. Definitely better than regular sarking.

[Senad]

Interested to see if this has worked out for you, Wez.
Have you started? How is it going?
Cheers

[wez]

Hey Senad.. well it's been slow progress, with a bunch of other things taking priority over the last year or so.

But... I have the final design/drawings, and I've got the all important first quote out of the way, which I can now work backwards from. A long way backwards.

Can't rush these things of course. Check back in six months ;-)

[Senad]

Check back in six months ;-)

Hehe.. I think you've got it about right.

I've actually got my build under way and it's not going too badly when I actually have time to work on it. But it is small and it doesn't take too much work to see some progress.. Hoping to be finished in a few weeks.

So, in your plans/drawings, have you decided to go for one big, open room..? Still going with the mud bricks?

[wez]

Mud brick turned out to be unsuitable for a few reasons. Pretty expensive too, with a bunch of engineering issues that negated my original vision of a frameless, load-bearing wall approach.

So it's back to a stud frame build. Still planning to do a big open space, with the option of rooms-within-the-room down the track.

[Chris H]

I went with the post and beam approach when i built my Muddy. Lots of hard work and if i didn't have help from family and an experienced mud brick layer for the first few coarces i would never have got it done. However the finished house with large open plan living area was a great space for home recording. Timber lining cathedral ceilings, jarra tramway block floor, bay windows. It was a great sounding room to record in and i remember reading somewhere that the pourous /pitted nature of the bud brick acts nicely for diffusion and hermoltz resonator for high frequencies.

[wez]

Yeah ok so did I mention I'm NOT using mud brick now? i.e. stop teasing me with your stories of how great it is ;-)

[Chris H]

................yea, well I sold the house didn't I.

do you feel better now?