Two buck shops

[davemc]

Thanks Chris (MFDU) and thanks for the calls and emails I have recieved. At the moment I am cool about getting out and selling. When I close the doors yeah probably another story...

I am tempted to go back to Tape as I loved the way you just recorded and mixed.. Although now when bands wnat to be chopped/autotuned/edited to depth mm do not know.. Personally taht is what I think the problem with Pro Tools is over editing and the fact some people cannot mix in Digital.
Will see.

[rick]

I've just found out that Paul's message was an edited text - so before we all talk ourselves into a wall this topic will be closed until further notice.



actually i am going to unlock it, pull pauls (howards letter) and invite paul to post it up again himself if he feels fit.

i dont want to sound paranoid, but the only posts i want here are from the people doing the posting. so nobody goes off half cocked or gets hurt from the fallout

[Linear]

OK, so this thread is open again.

I invite Paul to post his thoughts here, as any perspective that incites lively discussion (no matter how retarded or contraversial) is good.

I will just say however that I have spoken to lots of musicians, and many will comment on certain patronising (and usually older) engineers. fair enough, they're probably bitter as they're still recording bands that they believe are substandard for rates which they believe should be much higher. I must have heard the phrase 'grumpy old c#*t' more times than I can remember from said bands.

So here is my bit of advice - if you're unhappy with your chosen profession, are patronising and discourteous to your clients, have nothing but negative things to say about the industry and feel threatened by others coming in to your trade, then maybe it's time to leave and do something else.

It's interesting to observe that the well respected engineers and producers in this game always seem to have similar traits - a friendly, patient, understanding and courtous demeanor. Whenever I meet successful people in this industry, I always walk away humbled and smiling, and completely understanding why they are successful in this game.

it's just as amazing to speak to the 'grumpy old c#*ts' who do nothing but whinge and complain about the state of the industry - they too have similar traits and I walk away (again) understanding why they are where they are.

Just my 2c.

Chris

[mfdu]

phonetically, bitter in german means "please"

so those bitter old chaps are actually simply saying "please, i'm tired - can somebody relieve me from my sad and drab life?"

'cause as linear(chris) says "maybe it's time to leave and do something else"

cue benny hill theme track - i'm going for a run around the office.

chris.

[wez]

[quote="Linear"]
It's interesting to observe that the well respected engineers and producers in this game always seem to have similar traits - a friendly, patient, understanding and courtous demeanor. Whenever I meet successful people in this industry, I always walk away humbled and smiling, and completely understanding [b]why[/b] they are successful in this game.

[/quote]

i like what you said chris. nearly every time i meet a 'big' name, i'm expecting to be intimidated but i'm invariably impressed - and inspired - by their friendliness, and i'm reminded that people want to work in happy, friendly, positive environments. thanks for reminding me.

when guys come in to do work experience, or someone tells me they want to get into engineering, i always ask them... "what do you think is the most important skill an engineer needs?" i tell them it's not a trick question, but i don't think i've ever got the answer i'm after. it's no secret - it's people skills. you can teach a monkey to mic a drum kit. but you can't teach it to keep a room full of people happy and relaxed under pressure.

[Henry]

Sorry I didn't read all this guff but the Recording Studio offers a SERVICE.

We get clients when they (and past clients) are happy with our service. They go to another Studio when they are not happy with the service or our service no longer meets their requirements. True?

Charging $8 per hour demonstrates to everyone the value of your Service. It says to ppl immediately that you do not value your services very highly at all!

If a Client has a problem with a mix, the Client knows they'll find it difficult to say they're not getting their moneys worth! If you need to press on and do a 12hr session, there is little incentive for the Engineer to hang around etc for an extra $32, woopty dooo I'd rather sleep!Something breaks down, the Engineer has to get to the Bank b4 closing, there's a nasty hum in a piano mic etc etc... You won't get service at $8 an hour.

Even if you had a Neve Console and 24 trk tape, at $8 an hour the SERVICE is still gonna be shite isn't it which is really what you want..Service!!

[heathen]

I think people skills are a major advantage in any business,unless your prime minister it seems. Who wants to work with someone you can't stand even if the are great at thier job.
I mix in my lounge room,why?Because I could have picked the dingy room with no air and not much furniture but my lounge room is where I've always listened to music and I have a great view and a relaxed environment.I'ts where most people listen to music on any half decent stereo is in the loungeroom.I've got some exytremely well selected gear which does exactly what I want. When tracking it is 99% of the time elsewhere in another studio unless doing a few small overdubs.My mixes translate well onto other systems.
I'll build my new studio into my new house when I knock this box down.I'm also going to set up the control room very similarly to how my room is now though it will be designed acoustically correct from the start.
I owe no money right now for any equipment I've bought over the years,so this 2 buck shop will only ever improve and also survive the coming recession/depression in our aussie market,there is no going backward from here for me. Don't think a recession isnt coming look at the housing markets and the constantly rising record trade deficit,interest rates are going to go up they have too ,to stop people wasting money on credit cards.
This applies to studios as well,no people going out and spending money at shows less band bookings ,less money for recording budgets unless they make a deal.People are broke but they just don't know it yet. So my question is how many 2 buck shops owe half a million bucks on thier studio? I bet a thousand bucks ,none around here. I'm not having a go but merely pointing out who the survivors could be in a logical way.
Heath.

[rick]

geez dont tell anybody that the recession will come (its a secret that clever studio owners are keeping up their sleeve as a market advantage)

i have spent ten years making sure i OWN my business, when our hurtling enconomy eventually trips over ,everybody will get hurt, studio owners alike.

knowing about money doesnt make a studio work (just checking the bookings and vibe at studios 301 this week -and tom seems to know all about money...)

knowing about service makes a studio repeat business , and thats the bit i never read about
Repeat business
if the 2 buck shops have that then they are doing something right

[heathen]

Oops,I let the cat out. Sorry Rick. Seriously though its a good business decision to make sure things are owned outright in this type of business climate,actually in any business climate. Those of us who saw this coming 4 years ago will be the survivors. I'm sure anyone who survived the last recesion can survive this one. When did you start Turtlerock Rick?Must have been near the last recession or in the thick of it,just interested thats all.
Illness or injury as well is another good reason to own things outright, so many business owners get sick or injured from working so bloody hard and then get kicked in the guts again when they are down and can't work and pay bills associated with costs of maintaining the business.I know as I had brain surgery 5 years ago (sept 11,2000 believe it or not)and would have been screwed severely had I have had any outstanding loans. Took a year just to get back to a sort of normal routine. Even listening to songs while mixing over and over made me queasy.
Bummer eh,but its all good now. All I can say is be very wary of your spending everyone over the next few years.
Yep repeat business and building a client base is paramount.
Also ask any woman and I'm sure they will say it's not the size but what you do with it that counts.

[Mad King Soup IV]

Say what you like about audio colleges, but one thing that's being drilled into us right at the moment is that attitude is vital - in getting a job, keeping a job, and making sure that customers are satisfied and will come back. Not that I didn't enjoy being berated by angry Germans during my days as a programmer, but keeping the customers happy makes things so much more enjoyable!

Mike Wyatt

(Just to make things clear, I'll post under my real name in future.)

[Martinez]

Wow!

I can't believe this thread is still going!

this would have to be some kind of record for this forum me thinks! :o


its a great thread!

[Jeremy H]

Well, I've been lurking and following this thread with interest - So I thought I may as well stand up on my hind legs and have my say - for what it's worth!!

For the record (?) I am very much a member of the VEH fraternity - However, in my working life to date (for nearly 30 years) I have made my living by being self employed in a couple of different (unrelated to music) industries

I don't see any negatives raised here in regard to the audio industry as being that much different to any other industry. That is, all industries change, become more competative and challenging as time rolls on. i think that is the nature of business in general.

But i dont think anyone here believes that the recording industry is going to just vanish any time soon?

That being the case, who will survive into the future? Well in my experience, it has always been the people/organisations/facilities that are simply "better than average." How much "better than average" you are, merely determines wether you just survive or ultimately prosper.

So unless you have a billion dollars of capitalisation available to you, don't be to concerned about what SonyBMG are doing - just look to the middle of the pack - for the vast majority of the players in the game, that is obviously where the true competition abides.

The other feature of all modern industries, IMHO, is specialisation. Once upon a time, for example, every town or suburb had a "mechanic" who worked in all aspects of motor vehicle repair. Now we mostly have specialists - steering specialists, exhaust specialists, automatic transmission specialists and so on. It seems that all industries become more specialised as they evolve - and eventually it becomes impossible for any one player to "do it all"

So if working with young unsigned talent blows your skirt up - do it. It has to be a valid market for someone to cater to. Just make sure you do it better than the average guy.

I read somewhere that the "music industry" is the world's fifth largest industry. I don't know what that is in dollars but it must mean that a shit load of money changes hands everyday in this business!

That doesn't sound too "unhealthy" to me.

Jeremy

[Peter Knight]

The other feature of all modern industries, IMHO, is specialisation. Once upon a time, for example, every town or suburb had a "mechanic" who worked in all aspects of motor vehicle repair. Now we mostly have specialists - steering specialists, exhaust specialists, automatic transmission specialists and so on. It seems that all industries become more specialised as they evolve - and eventually it becomes impossible for any one player to "do it all"

Like a drum editing specialist for example?

[JulienG]

Like a drum editing specialist for example?

Ah, yes, Fingaz, you're an inspiration to us all. 8)

[Peter Knight]

:D I was actually thinking of Fingaz as I typed that!

But seriously, a lot of musos apparently seize up at the thought of a task that enormous... why couldn't that be outsourced to a specialist as a matter of course? (Even if the concept is morally wrong)

[Linear]

well, this topic seemed to end pretty quickly. I was hoping to get some sort of reply from Mr Bryant himself!

So anyway, I've been thinking about these $2 shops and the cross-subsidising of small studios with other jobs.

Then I thought about 301. I really doubt that it turns a profit, and seem to recall an interview where the infamous owner mentioned that it couldn't turn a profit based on the initial investment required.

In reality, 301 is subsidised by SAE - just like many small studios that are cross-subsidised by other work. Sure you could argue that they're related businesses, but they have a different customer base and different revenue sources so I don't think the connection is valid.

So I don't really see what the difference is. If anything, it's a legal (but unfair) way to remove your competition and isn't by definition anti-competitive as they don't hold absolute market power.

Chris