Is it kosher to re-appropriate old classical music?

[jkhuri44]

Hey dudes,

Im working with an rnb artist atm...and im in the process of making an instrumental for one of her songs....

I really like this 1800's guitar adagio..written by a famous composer Faure.

I've re worked it so that now, its the same melody, but instead of being a 3/4 piece, its in 4/4...

The tune is still recognisable...

The question is...is it legal to do this?? since the composer is dead, etc. I know that if i were to reperform a CURRENT song, by a famous artist, i'd have to pay for rights to use that composition....

I looked on google by typing "sampling classical music", but this is sorta different...im not sure what the legalities are in regards to re performing something thats very old.

Any direction on what to read, or ppl's past experiences would b really helpful.

cheers,

J.

[heathen]

Real can of wermz there, in essence yes you should but in reality they whoever owns it are not likely to sue unless the dude starts makin serious bread. Litigation costs a fortune, but yes there should always be the intention to make good if money is being made.

I'm probably gonna get flamed but hey I've wsorked on a lot of hiphop, half want to be sued for the recognition. As engineer you can't be expected to know every piece ever written, up to the song maker to adhere there and pay the dues.

Anyway lotza wermz, big giant wiggly wermz.

Geez Jamil don't do hiphop, heh, do another epic like the one you just produced, I can't stop listening to it, not for the fact we both mixed it, I just really dig the record.

Oh shit did I mention hiphop is a can of wermz, heh.

[Ben M]

Something to note: The rights to using/sampling recorded material has recently changed from 50 to 70 years after the composers death. And beginning at the end of the year they die.

Have a look on the APRA website site for some help. Good luck.

cheers
Ben

[Kurt]

Google tells me Faure died in 1924, add 70 years and you're still well and truly in the clear. Hurray for public domain.

Of course I may be completely wrong......

[heathen]

Of course I may be completely wrong......

Famous last words, heh.

[no-fi]

.....so it's your own recording of the notes, and all you care about is the rights to the composition?
ie, you haven't sampled a recording that has its own copyright in the recording?

that will make it a lot less painful to do right.


though fat lot of good even getting permission and clearing stuff will do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_Sweet_Symphony

all it takes is one (or now, two!) burned out old hack rock managers to screw you over, even if you do the right thing

pathetic money sucking parasites.

[jkhuri44]

heath...why would anyone turn down a client?? lol...i dont see any "epic rockers" paying me to produce an album :P I do see a few mc's paying me though, hahaha

no fi

not using a sampled recording, just reappropriating the melody and such and having it re performed off course...and even further, the original is in 3/4..and we're re arranging to be 4/4...its still recognisable

....as Kurt pointed out...Faure,..is well older than 70 yrs...

meaning, im in the clear? i think ?

[Guest]

My general understanding of the copyright issue and the one we use at the theatre company's i work at is, 70 or 75 years after the death of the composer it become open for public use. So as long as your recording the tune yourself not sampling a recording that is currently in copyright you should be fine. That said there maybe the odd loop hole I don't know of. For example the rights to the story Peter Pan was left to a children's hospital that use the money from the right to fund the place so the government made an exception so as it never goes out of copyright.

[jkhuri44]

hmmm

food for thought..

oh well, ill wait till the girl gets famous before loosing sleep about it...hehehe

[Milo]

Plenty of famous examples of pop music literally stealing classical pieces (sorry-adapting) without acknowledgement, and getting away with it, and making tons of moolah: Whiter Shade of Pale (Bach), that dippy Supremes hit (Handel), Stairway to Heaven (Bach), American Tune (though Paul Simon acknowledged Bach for the music), and there were a few Aussie pastiches around the Bandstand era that took classical pieces and tizzed them up in disco pants. Fur Elise has been bandied around in a thousand variants, there was even a disco version of Beethoven's 5th. There was an interesting BBC programme about 20 years ago, where Plant, Page and others were interviewed on this very subject, and all admitted their sources.
70 years' copyright after death is the standard for the US, in Europe its still 50, I believe. Watch out if there were lyrics in the original, though: even though George Gershwin has passed his 70 blissful years, the estate is still not letting go, saying Ira's time is not up yet.