Dont assume, it makes an ass out of you and me.

[jkhuri44]

My cousin just bought an electronic gadget from a massive name in the industry....

im sure some of you own this exact product...there's been a lot of hype around it....its not an audio engineering product...i dont wanna mention its name coz im not in the mood for a flame war, and i dont think rick is either...

I have been alerted to the fact that this product, doesnt have some REALLY BASIC FEATURES!!

I was on the phone to their technical department where i spoke to one of their product specialists....and i was alerted that it was my fault, or rather, my cousins fault that he did not check the specs.

This raises an interesting question...

Do we have the right to return this product because it doesnt have features we think are absolutely essential in a brand new product, marketed to be the best thing since sliced bread?

some of your probably know what im talking about :)

[heathen]

If it's within a week or 2 an exchange should not be a problem, usually.

A flame war over some type of electronic device could mean only 1 thing. I'm not sayin it!

What features?

[musikwerks]

hmmm.... it's not the retailer's fault your cousin didn't research the purchase more thoroughly. If the unit is faulty, sure, and if the sales guy gave you false information, sure, but for what you're stating.....

[chris p]

Like your cousin's iPhone doesn't have a keypad? :-)

Some features are essential to the nature of the product - a phone should, for example, allow you to make and receive telephone calls. But these are few and far between.

The general law for consumer goods sales is that products must be merchantable quality (ie of sufficient quality to do what goods of that good can be expected to do - see comment above - as well as do anything they claim to do) and also must be fit for any purpose made known to the seller. They must comply with any sample shown prior to purchase and the seller must pass good title (ie the goods must not be stolen, etc). Everything else is up for grabs - some retailers have a no questions return policy, others don't, but there is no enforceable right to a refund, exchange or credit if you simply choose the wrong thing or it doesn't do what you thought it might do. Caveat Emptor and all that.

In all this, there's a little hint. For major purchases, always tell the seller the purpose for which you want the goods. You get extra rights that way.

[Thirteen]

Check page 3 of this document to see the Australian consumer refund conditions:

http://www.ret.gov.au/tourism/informati ... s%20v3.pdf

[rick]

i bought an aeg belt sander on sunday to sort some recycled wood to make some christmas presents
on sunday night 10 mins after starting it up it stopped working , i took it back to bunnings today

well - firstly i should say its my own fault , all my power tools after years of trial and error are all german "festool" products , this stuff is expensive , works , makes no dust , little noise and keeps working.

for the belt sander i told myself i could not justify the festool expense so i went the "middle of the road " "approach . well!

bunnings would have happily refunded my money on a cheap $69 belt sander but the top of the line ( err middle of the road AEG) must get sent back for repairs - no swaps no refund... no chance

well 1 and 1/2 hours later after holding my cool on a hot day they refunded my money , i kept saying" the product was unsuitable for the job it was advertised as doing "

they only refunded me to get me out of the store not because they thought i was right

i went straight out and bought the festool i should have bought in the first place - got christmas things to make


err not much to do with the post but beats wasting an AT article on bunnings
back to the point guys :)

you know what jamil name the product name your gripes
if it looks like a nasty thread i'm gonna nuke it anyway so lets just see

[jkhuri44]

Like your cousin's iPhone doesn't have a keypad? :-)

lol, im not sure that pissed me off about the Iphone...i didnt touch the bloody thing....:)

however, what i was alerted to by my cousin was that it couldnt copy and paste (in some applications, if not all) BUT, mainly, you could not save draft sms's.

I got pissed off, because I have a 5 year old, if not 8 year old, i have no clue, its that old, Nokia dinosaur of a phone, that can save drafts....

My problem is that beta testers, if they exist in this scenario, didnt raise this as an issue, nor initially did the design team think this be a necessary function...

i was alerted by the product specialist that mac changed the SMSing architecture to be more like a convo between ppl, but imho, u should be able to save a friggin message period. especially considering that the iphone picks songs according to the rate its shaking, so, if you're running, itll play fast metal, if youre walking, slow classical...such an incredibly unique feature, would have involved so much r&d.....but before running, imo the iPhone should have bloody crawled....

Kris, i dunno about you, but if i were to buy a phone, i'd hope that it saved sms messages....and i wouldnt think i neeeded to go online to check that that was feasible...actually, i dont think any phone maker would herald this as a significant enough feature to waste advertising space on.

To make things worse, mac is wiping their hands clean of the idea of a refund, told me to speak to telstra where he bought the phone, and Telstra is saying theyre just a service provider, and its nothing to do with them....I was also told by Apple that if i still wanted to use the Iphone i would need to wait until, "Saving SMSs was a supported feature"...

this whole scenario is kinda like checking if a monitor speaker had a way to connect to my interface...ridiculous.

I dont want to start a flame war....but it seriously worries me, that products like this are being released.

[musikwerks]

Yeah, I see your point Jamil. I thought it might be a piece of audio gear you were talking about. The iphone is pretty deep, feature wise, so it would be easy for that information to be non existent until too late. Did your cousin get insurance with the phone plan? It would be a shame if the phone was damaged, accidentally.... Oh... was that my outside voice?

[TimS]

JK actually stated that "its not an audio engineering product" however, I like your thinking on the insurance issue - smart move!! :}

[rick]

insurance
what and get another one that wont cut and paste ..?

for the record my iphone is the best text machine i have ever had ( i am actually prepared to answer some texts now)
best diary i have ever had , best mobile internet i have ever had and i am so in love with the weather and tide and moon apps it i could not begin to tell you ....

but it is the singularly the WORSE telephone i have EVER had , it looks like its got full range , but it drops out MOST of the time in a conversation .

i think its a apple plan to remove telephone voice communications from the planet and introduce video phones :)

"remember how lame the telephone was ? - i love my new ivideo phone it rocks, never cuts out etc etc "

[jkhuri44]

hey rick,

yeah, i should add, that the iphone does some cool shit, no bloody doubt...ryan showed me the UBD on that thing, heck, even i would buy it, hahahahaha (for the record, my sense of direction sucks)

but again, the lack of the 2 above features, would be asif GML made a compressor with hysterisis controls but forgot to add threshold and ratio, and said, "we'll add those next time, we know u just wasted 5K on this piece of shit, but give us some time, we'll put it in the upgrade you're gonna have to pay more money for"

....kinda tarded.

[jkhuri44]

I should have prefaced this post, with the fact that i heard the Bose Noise Cancelling headphones previous to checking out my cuzz's iPhone...

and holy hell, i havent been impressed with a piece of consumer tech for a while....those things do whats advertised. Amazing attenuation of mids/bass.
and thats without any music playing, when u play music, you cant even hear yourself talk out loud.

anyway....u can see where my distaste stemmed from....comparing the 2.

[smash]

Hmmm...

Kinda Glad i don't have my name in the signature for this comment...

The SMS thing sucks... but to be fair, Australia is a little unique in how much we rely on sms.
82% of US phone users have never sent an SMS.

That's right... Never.

My opinion only ;-) is that SMS is not a big priority, the Phone sends emails, which are seen as being pretty much the same as sms, but without the length restrictions. The same ethos seems to apply to MMS - why include an app that can only send 40k photos when you can send full size ones.

Rick, as far as the iPhone sucking as an actual "phone" - the 2.2 software update does help, some of the issues are cause by the bandwidth demands being placed on the 3G network by the phones themselves. This will definitely improve further in the future.

Whilst even I have thought about temporarily going back to a "normal" phone, all the good things for me outweigh the bad. Being able to send and receive emails, and sync my calendar and contacts saves me hours every day.

As far as taking your phone back, it's true that "Apple" can't, Apple Australia doesn't sell phones, per say, they distribute them to a few companies who actually "sell" them. If your cousin is still un happy, I would go back to Telstra and gently remind them that he didn't buy the Phone from Apple, you purchased the phone from Telstra.

Rather than speaking to the sales person, as to speak to the manager.
If that doesn't work, call Telstra, and make sure that you get a reference number.
Failing that, tell them you will take them to the Telecommunications Ombudsman.

There is also an iPhone feature request / feedback list here: http://www.apple.com/feedback/iphone.html

Smash.

[Thirteen]

I have a Blackberry on the Optus network, and it's drop out and stutter rate is appalling. I must spend a fortune paying flag-falls and extra 30 sec.time blocks because Optus has such a poor network, I dream of getting an iPhone with Telstra.

BTW, Optus sales lied to me about the blackberry's capabilities, and when I tried to return it, they told me that they are exempt from Australian consumer law as far a mobile phones are concerned. A direct lie. Every time I take Optus on I get a cash payout from them or a several months service fees waived. They are the worst and most deceitful company in Australia as far as I am concerned, but if you call them to task you will succeed. You have a right to return the product if it does not do fulfill the function that it was advertised or implied to do.

[Bent my VU]

Does the iPhone still drop out if you run it on the 2g network?

I used to work for one of the big telcos and while the towers are 3g capable the backend has not been updated. It's kind of like trying to squeeze a tennis ball into a garden hose

[Ryan Collings]

My 2c - The iPhone does a lot of stuff really well. And some stuff not at all...

Overall, i love it.

But i can't quite get my head around why they do not include cut and paste, mms, forward sms and save draft sms... And yet the whole sms conversation thing is sooo damn cool that it boggles my mind how they can release an update for the firmware and include street view in the maps application and yet not include basic overlooked functions like forwarding a contacts details via sms or email...

love the email, love the maps, looking forward to tom toms turn by turn gps app...

Got used to the poor battery life...

Hate how the calls always drop out...

Overall its a gadget i would strongly reccomend and no im no apple fanboy.

[musikwerks]

hmmm.... given that it's called an i-PHONE, doesn't the call dropout issue negate it's primary purpose? I keep hearing people talk about the dropout rate and am kinda glad I didn't get one just yet. Is it the phone that causes this problem or the network?

[smash]

hmmm.... given that it's called an i-PHONE, doesn't the call dropout issue negate it's primary purpose? I keep hearing people talk about the dropout rate and am kinda glad I didn't get one just yet. Is it the phone that causes this problem or the network?

There was initially an issue between the way that towers and iPhones would interact. Basically, some of the towers couldn't handle a simultaneous number of iPhone connections above a certain number.

Honestly, I'm getting a tenth of the dropouts I initially got - to the point where my iPhone is now more reliable than the VOIP phone in my office - but that's another story.

Seriously, upgrade to 2.2 - it fixes heaps.

And put your "feature" requests on the web - every single one is read, and numbers of people requesting specific features is documented.

Logic Playlists anyone?

[rick]

hey smash , i dont want to have to be a dick about it and is its kinda topical at the moment
but now you have you gotta post with your name around here
no name no post :(

i can see why you would not want to be seen to be talking out of school with your day gig , but if you think its a problem using your name and talking about your employers products , then simply dont post .

( or use your first name if your only half with me on this issue
but no name no post ... etc etc )

[TimS]

I cant see why phones have to have all this extra sh1t (camera, games, email, internet, MP3's, WAP, WOP, WIP.......)
Thats why we have computers at home/work for email/internet/etc.. supposedly!!!
Call me old fashioned, but a phone should be a phone.
Honestly, I have a Nokia, it doesnt drop out, I can make calls, txt or send pics without any problems. It has WAP and email function, but I've never even turned those functions on..
If I could get my old Nokia 3310 working again, I'd use that - reliable and no-bull operating!! However, it didnt completely survive a 7 week African safari in 2005 :-(

[Ausrock]

Yep, I'm with TimS on this one.

I use an old Nokia.....a model or two after my old 5510 which happens to be sitting in a drawer still capable of being used, been with Optus pre-paid for over 10 years with never a problem....no drop outs, no service issues, etc. If I want to take photos I use a camera, emails....I use the PC, blah, blah.

[Chinagraf]

I agree in theory about a simple phone, but I do like having a good camera in mine. It's really handy for recalling all my outboard. Just take pics and put it in the songs folder.

[Aearth]

Smash where are you, Smash...............Smaaaaaaaaash!

[no-fi]

it looks like a pretty fun toy... my problem is, I want my phone to be a phone... I rely on it to work when I need to talk to people or text them.... if I wanted a toy, I'd buy a nintendo DS (actually might yet - that DS10 program looks cool!)


my nokia I got a few months ago manages to be a good phone, and to work for making calls and sending SMS's.... but also has a 5 megapixel camera with autofocus that takes OK pictures, and it also has GPS and a basic mapping program that I have used to navigate about the place... and I got it "free" on a 2 year $30 plan.... I haven't hooked it up to a data plan to test the internet through it yet though. I get the feeling that might suck, on such a tiny screen, and navigating with a numeric keypad...

[TimS]

I forgot to add that my phone has a 5.something megapioxel camera also - handy yes, but essential, no.

[Futureman]

I'd buy a nintendo DS (actually might yet - that DS10 program looks cool!) ...

hehe.. I got that for my DS for a laugh.. tis ok..

[rob]

yes, my experience is that optus are liers. Earlier this year as my existing contract ran out they phoned me to offer a new contract. So, after sorting the apples from the oranges I concluded the discussion with " and so this is the best plan for me and the most cost effective" To wit the sales dude replied "yes'.
After a few months of getting bills on this plan i did a bit of research and found that based on my usage the contract was far from the best deal, so i phoned 'em up and said you lied to me about the cost effectiveness of this plan. You have another plan that would be cheaper. yeah! The salesdudett agreed and so cancelled the plan and put me on a better one. This reduced my phone bill by over 50%.

The lesson is if they can suck you they will suck hard, but if you call them on it you can come out on top.

[Aearth]

If you're stuck with the IPhone, sell it on eBay.

[tunetown]

In regards to the dropout issue, I was having the same with my Imate Ultimate 9502 until I changed the setting from next G or 3G to GSM only. Seems much more stable now. I only turn next G back on if I need the internet.

It may be coincidental, but if someone else could try it and report I'd feel less mental.

Cheers

[TimS]

Can you use your GPS on the GSM network or do you need 3G for that??