the PA is barking at me again

[Matthew Dawson]

Hi all,

I went to a great little jazz gig last night. The band was great and the venue was comfy ... but the sound just 'barked' out of the PA.

It was a small band, and the PA was only really doing sax and vox.

Do you know the sound I mean? It sounds really harsh and boxy - not at all smooth and musical. I hear it alot in small venues.

What is it? What can you do (as an engineer or system designer) to stop it?

Matthew

[Kris]

umm..... hire a good pa? get a good engineer?

[Chris H]

A good soung person can pull a musical mix with a poor sound system.........to a point.
Also in a small venue a lot is beyond the engineers control.600 watt
bass amps maxed out, 300 watt mashals x 2 for guitars. !!! Sometimes sounds great, but more often sounds pox. Depends on how the musos pull their stage sound.
But a jazz gig should sound good and the pa with just vox and sax should be ok with just minimum sax in the FOH and the bulk of the poor little crappy pa's recources devoted to getting the best vox sound possable.
my 2c
Have a good weekend.

[Chris H]

A good soung person should also be able to type afteeer staff drinks a bit.

[mark rachelle]

this is dear to my heart as i play in the scott carne trio from time to time.
small venues, small pa, no time to sound check, we mix it on stage and often its impossible to hear yourself. better still get out the front to actually hear what we are doing so we can make the proper adjustments, also a lot of the time the room changes dramatically with the number of people in the room and it seems that there is always a room frequency that plays havoc with fundamental feedback with acoustic gtrs.

its very difficult to get right unless you have a residency and still that will change with the number of people and the temperature of the room.

sometimes wha oftent sounds good to the band is often to bright for the audience because the band are more than likely getting and balancing their sound from a less than adequate direction from the FOH speakers. ie speakers sound dramatically duller from sideways or behind.

[Matthew Dawson]

Thanks for your replies. Yes - that's what I mean Mark.

Yes, it is a always pretty ordinary PA, and the band (or the barman!) is the 'engineer'.

It is all very well to 'hire a better PA' or 'get a good engineer' ... but that is often just not feasible ... the gig I was at the other night had an audience of about 12! This doesn't mean the gig is any less worthy. But is does nean that hiring a great PA and engineer is not affordable.

Sometimes I wonder if in these small gigs, it would be better if each band member was responsible for their own amplification. If the singer had one speaker facing the audience, and one facing the band, being fed the same signal, would that help? A powered PA speaker next to the drummer to give the kick a little more 'thud'?

I guess the band would have to be really well led - to keep things in check (make sure that guitar volume is under control!).

I often wonder why the singer gets away with not having to provide their own amplification. Imagine if the singer spent as much as the guitarist on their 'rig' ... But then again ... the singer is often also the guitarist I s'pose ...

Perhaps wireless instruments would help - the guitarist could wonder out into the audience to check the balances.

I am interested to see if anyone is dealing with these issues and having some success - how do you do it?

Matthew

[Kurt]

A long mic lead for the singer is alot cheaper than the guitarist going wireless! And who'd trust a guitarist with the mix anyway ;)

That took forever to type, I think I drank too much at tonights gig (So does the missus)

[JulienG]

no time to sound check

The best bands that I've heard in this situation have a bit of a tuning/sound check routine that's (semi) entertaining for the audience. Can't think of any offhand it's been a while.

[kick'n'snare]

Hi, I'm very new to this (a forum) but not to your sound problem. I know you would have heard this a million times. If you all turned down a bit you would be able to hear each other when that happens the band gets its level right because your'e listening to each instrument you will find your balance. Make room for the vocalist to do his thing also chances are you'll be able take advantage of any slapback you hear from the back of the room while not exciting any bad acoustics.it takes a bit of pratice but worth it.

[simonstav]

I assume you are talking about the Limelight Lounge? I haven't been there myself but from what I can gather the room is acoustically ordinary, as is the PA and the sound guy is, well he is the barman.

I have a couple of house PAs and although we try to put systems of good quality (JBL/Aust Mon/A&H/TC/Yamaha/dbx/shure) we cannot control the person behind the desk. Usually they are who ever will do it for the least money.

At the end of the day it comes down to dollars and you get what you pay for.

Regards Simon
www.simonstav.com