Once again with the loudness button..

[DaleRoyce]

Anyone else noticed that Mastering now means 'Remix'.
Or that "we can do it.. In the mix..." is more often only half of a clients thinking..

[Ryan Collings]

Ah u speak of the black arts of mastering. The mysterious arts of which words must not be spoken.... I think a lot of it comes from ignorance. Many people don't know what mastering truly is. I don't say ignorance like its an insult, just like I would be ignorant of the mathematical formula's involved in splicing stem cells.

BTW, DaleRoyce, if you wouldn't mind, could you please include your name in your signature in accordance with our forum policy. (Or I may get lynched for not enforcing this policy by everyone else who abides... Help a brother out! :P)

[Ryan Collings]

Another point to consider is that sure mastering with stems is more flexible, i guess its just another form of mastering... Maybe not the best way, definately not the traditional way and more often than not more time consuming.

[DaleRoyce]

Thanks Ryan for the heads up.
Have done as requested. Cheers

[DaleRoyce]

Just to finish this thread...
A client i had recently handed me a track, spoke in detail of their vision for the song, and of what they didnt want,
(namely a slammed flat track that lacked depth and dynamics, that changed the perception of the mix and its pans).
We spoke for about 15 to 20 mins on the subject, then listened, and looked @ the track with the client.
He left, i worked, he came and heard, he loved it, paid and left.... Happy ending...? Not quite.
I'm called up to be told that they were going to try getting the track done @ #$ Mastering, and
that they needed to give it one more try somewhere else.. They let me know of their joy @ the finished
track from #$ Mastering... i was cut... What could i have done better, what could they @ the other Mastering house have done differently to achieve
their narvana...
After they sent me a copy of their final it all became clear...
They wanted their dynamic, well recorded, well mixed, and totally vibeing track SSSlammed Soo Hard,
that metallica might start feeling better about that last wall of smack and scratch they put out..
Damn, and all the while i thought english was my first language. ;-)

[musikwerks]

Sorry to hear that Dale. At least you got paid though!

I have to say, the idea of a mastering engineer actually asking for stems (as Ryan mentioned) does not sit well with me at all.

Mix engineer = mixes the song.

Mastering engineer = polish.

Very distinct line in the sand if it's my project.

[rick]

sometimes mastering =one part technical : nine parts psychological !

you just have to learn that sometimes what they want is not want they are saying they want .
dynamics is the usual culprit - nobody "wants " a slammed record, except often thats what they expect, they just need different words to express themselves your job can be a linguistic one more often then not with a young band


if i don't know the artist (most of the time ) i always ask what cds they are listening to at the moment , not who they think they sound like but what is actually in their players.

it often speaks volumes about what they will be happy with in the end , also of course you have to learn and remember the sound and level of an enormous amount of music so a simple passing comment by the singer can be interpreted as "oh he says he wants it with dynamics but he listens to music that is slammed to death" etc so whats the best course of action?

if in doubt i suggest you master to reference discs brought in by the band
its a good thing to do if you want to avoid this stuff

that said i rarely use references unless its really off the wall stuff i am not familiar with



don't get cut up about this stuff if they didn't "get" what you were doing for them , you probably were not doing the right thing (no matter how bad it sounds now )
just think everyday who's names on the front cover !

the band will make maybe 7-8 records in their career , you can get to work on thousands
don't sweat it is my advice, it will happen again and again .

[DaleRoyce]

Thank you both..
I listen. I learn.