Turtlerock Forum

I have been using a Mac for many years now and was never familiar with cracked software. I thought if I tested the demo's and liked them then I would buy them (like most of Massey's Plug-ins).
But having recently been to a friends house who has a PC, I cannot believe how easy to download a cracked program that costs me US$499 and use it straight away on his PC with no apparent bugs in it? How can this be right?
Is this just a PC thing as many Mac users I know have no cracked software on their computer?
I must be naive to all this.
IS this why people just buy PC's instead of Mac's because the $1000's of software is basically free on PC's??
Sorry Monday Morning rant - wheres my coffee.

Cracked software is just plain wrong. There is no argument that can support it in my opinion. Make sure you don't come near me with it because I will turn you in for it.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear.
My friend has the PC and did the downloading.
I already owned the software on my Mac.
I say again - I cant believe that people can get away with downloading cracked software so easily to then go and use like they own it.
Is there any policing of this? or is that why commercial software just keeps getting dearer !

Just agreeing with you Dale....

Yeah, I'm one of the victims (with software in the market place that's been widely copied and cracked).
It's as widespread as illegal downloading of music tracks.
It's a dilemma for the software producers. No security measures are crack proof, and the more effective the security, the more legal users feel inconvenienced and even tarred with the same brush as the crooks.
Like the music downloaders, many crackers (and illegal users like your friend) feel software is very cheap to produce and maintain, and also persuade themselves the same producers are fat cats riding around in limos with a couple of hot chicks.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
I'll talk tough to anyone who uses cracked music products, but there is little else I can do as an individual.
I reported an Ebay seller, who was blatantly auctioning multiple DVDR copies of my product, to Ebay and it took them months to act. In the meantime the guy was earning income off my back.
In the end, all that happened was Ebay requested the seller stop selling the copyright material, no other penalty.
So, as often is the case, crime pays, even if you are caught red handed.

Wow - what software did you make or was involved with?

You'll find him here.. ;-)
http://www.toontrack.com/ezx.asp

Not saying crax are good but.......... in the old days of using a pc games and warez were always available for simple download and evaluation of usually previous editions or limited functionality, this was a long time ago and most of the companies who did so still sold lots of software and went on to become huge companies.

Sure you can still get a demo but it's usually a severe PITA to have to register your dongle or computer everytime you want to try a few different things, to usually find out it's a piece of garbage you may only ever use once and discard. Most plugins are like this, they generally truly suck, though after saying that there are definitely a few worth every cent, not many though.

Also think about the poor guy who went out and spent 10 times as much buying the hardware versions of the software people use these days, having some guy say "oh I have that box on my computer", geez. Deos'nt bother me though cause I know that most emulated plugs generally suck and would feel totally ripped off if I did buy them.

Anyway using crax and getting paid is very naughty, though I see no problem with using them for evaluation purposes "self educational purposes maybe", as long as they are legit for real work.

There are actually about only 4 plugins I'll ever need and buy and they are only fx.

heathen wrote:Not saying crax are good but.......... in the old days of using a pc games and warez were always available for simple download and evaluation of usually previous editions or limited functionality, this was a long time ago and most of the companies who did so still sold lots of software and went on to become huge companies.

Wolfenstein's DOOM - awesome!!! hehehe

Also the plugin market is oversaturated with crap, that's why the good guys who probably look after thier customers and make good software are always left out of pocket, there are just way too many poor choices to make, parting with your hard earned is what these guys want you to do, most don't care what you think of them as long as the empty your wallet they are happy.

Poor customer support is another issue, if something goes wrong how do you get it fixed if you can't call someone?

Also some plugins could be classed as "lemons" in the fact the make glitches, cause crashes, click and pop when different audio regions start and end, buffer issues, the list goes on, some of these plugs are expensive ones too. Who do you bill for a crackly poppy soft synth when you have to sit there for 3 hours removing clicks that were not the guy playings fault? Would the software company pay? Ha, not in a million years.

TimS wrote:

heathen wrote:Not saying crax are good but.......... in the old days of using a pc games and warez were always available for simple download and evaluation of usually previous editions or limited functionality, this was a long time ago and most of the companies who did so still sold lots of software and went on to become huge companies.

Wolfenstein's DOOM - awesome!!! hehehe

Exactly, you can still play the latest one too, it's online, insane fun.

heathen wrote:

TimS wrote:

heathen wrote:Not saying crax are good but.......... in the old days of using a pc games and warez were always available for simple download and evaluation of usually previous editions or limited functionality, this was a long time ago and most of the companies who did so still sold lots of software and went on to become huge companies.

Wolfenstein's DOOM - awesome!!! hehehe

Exactly, you can still play the latest one too, it's online, insane fun.

I havent played PC games (let alone DOOM) for many many yrs..
It was very cool though - simple graphics but great fun..
I had it backed up on about 4x1.44Mb floppy disks - long gone now..

musikwerks wrote: because I will turn you in for it.

Dobber :)

Yeah, I though Kristian was getting a little hot from that comment too :-o
Maybe he hadnt had his regualr morning coffee yet!!

TimS wrote:

heathen wrote:

TimS wrote:

heathen wrote:Not saying crax are good but.......... in the old days of using a pc games and warez were always available for simple download and evaluation of usually previous editions or limited functionality, this was a long time ago and most of the companies who did so still sold lots of software and went on to become huge companies.

Wolfenstein's DOOM - awesome!!! hehehe

Exactly, you can still play the latest one too, it's online, insane fun.

I havent played PC games (let alone DOOM) for many many yrs..
It was very cool though - simple graphics but great fun..
I had it backed up on about 4x1.44Mb floppy disks - long gone now..

Yeah I very rarely do, makes me seasick heh. Thing is you could always decide to buy it or ditch it with little cost.

TimS wrote:Yeah, I though Kristian was getting a little hot from that comment too :-o
Maybe he hadnt had his regualr morning coffee yet!!

Have a triple Kris, heh. Yeah dobbing on your mates, geez. Bet Kris has never done anything slightly naughty. C'mon Kris, tax evasion, fraud, shop lifting, some type of perversion maybe? Gotta be something? Theoritically speaking of course.

I stole a 2 dollar note from my class mate in Grade 5. I got four whacks of the cane (1.Thou 2. Shalt 3. Not 4. Steal). I haven't stolen a thing since then.

I'm pretty anti-pirate. And I would turn someone in if they were flaunting their theft and gloating about it. I have serial numbers and receipts for every single one of my programs, plugs or VI's. I'm an open book... come and verify if you like.

musikwerks wrote:I stole a 2 dollar note from my class mate in Grade 2. I got four whacks of the cane (1.Thou 2. Shalt 3. Not 4. Steal). I haven't stolen a thing since then.

I'm pretty anti-pirate. And I would turn someone in if they were flaunting their theft and gloating about it. I have serial numbers and receipts for every single one of my programs, plugs or VI's. I'm an open book... come and verify if you like.

2 bucks back then was a lot of moolah mate! Big heist.

Sorry, meant to be grade 5.. and yeah, it was back then!

Heh. Well still could have bought a shitload of lollies. Anyway you did your time. 4 whacks yeah that woulda hurt.

No excuses for piracy IMO.
I don't agree with downloading for evaluation I'm afraid.
I know some honest, legitimate people do it, but an awful lot of crackers use it as an excuse. If you've downloaded a crack copy of an eq plug and you like it, why buy it? For professionals it becomes a matter of customer support, and for some a matter of honour. I think most software is used in home studios/bedrooms however, in those cases there is less imperative to buy your plugs.
I know from my experience that money is tight in the software game, and because so many people do not pay for their software, some products become uneconomical to make.
Maybe I'm just too loaded?........ Yesterday I ordered Ivory: Italian Grand and today I have it in my hands - $299. I also ordered Omnisphere. As I was an Atmosphere owner my upgrade price was $199 (American). Now I have a ton of beautifully crafted sounds at my finger tips for just over $500. Perhaps I'm just so old I remember a time when you had to record a real piano and a bank of expensive synths to get the same result. That process would have cost me $$$$$$$.

Note: I have a product with Toontrack, but have no involvement with the company. We produced the samples and Toontrack released them, much the same as an artist, record company relationship.

ChrisW wrote:Yesterday I ordered Ivory: Italian Grand and today I have it in my hands - $299. I also ordered Omnisphere. As I was an Atmosphere owner my upgrade price was $199 (American). Now I have a ton of beautifully crafted sounds at my finger tips for just over $500.

I have those too Chris, as well as RMX & Trilogy. I use BFD2 instead of Toontracks though, with the Andy Johns and Jim Scott packs. Your so right, all these great samples at these prices is insane. Great value.

I buy the products I use to support the company into the future to ensure the product I bought keeps getting supported. My UAD2 Quad card has some issues with Vista64 at the moment but I know they'll fix it soon. Can't crack a UAD. It means more money for development.

Cheers

heathen wrote:

musikwerks wrote:I stole a 2 dollar note from my class mate in Grade 2. I got four whacks of the cane (1.Thou 2. Shalt 3. Not 4. Steal). I haven't stolen a thing since then.

I'm pretty anti-pirate. And I would turn someone in if they were flaunting their theft and gloating about it. I have serial numbers and receipts for every single one of my programs, plugs or VI's. I'm an open book... come and verify if you like.

2 bucks back then was a lot of moolah mate! Big heist.

They sent people to penal colonies for that. Oh! you are already here me hearty.

nIC

Aearth wrote:They sent people to penal colonies for that. Oh! you are already here me hearty.

nIC

Haha! Good one. :)

Aearth wrote:
They sent people to penal colonies for that. Oh! you are already here me hearty.

nIC

Well said Komrade. :)

Now people are desperate to get into Australia.
What other penal colonies are there?
Then we can send the software crackers there.

ChrisW wrote:Now people are desperate to get into Australia.
What other penal colonies are there?
Then we can send the software crackers there.

New Zealand

nIC

ChrisW wrote:Now people are desperate to get into Australia.
What other penal colonies are there?
Then we can send the software crackers there.

Actually Chris I think a lot of crackers already live in one of those horrible places most Aussies would fear to tread sooooo in a way they are already there.

The problem is a lot of the people who do the cracking are in say Russia, china or the Middle East somewhere. So they are never going to get the real pirates, all they can do is make examples of the people who use it.

Anyway what should the punishment be for using cracked software? You can't really go around gaoling young audio nerds for downloading cracks. Or imposing massive fines which could never be paid, I don't think Waves got much from anyone they took to court in the USA.

I don't think many people have the skills to crack software, I certainly would not even know where to start.

As for software protection there is very little in the way to stop this from happening, I'd be more inclined to be pissed off at the company who made the useless protection software which is meant to be protecting the program from crackers.

Seems protection software companies are mostly lemons too.

The whole thing is a mess really. I'm not advocating using cracks at all, I've got a lot to spend on my new mixing room and alot of that money will be spent on software.

Something worth noting too, as you mentioned Russia, is that copyright laws in some of these countries are pretty much non-existent. I remember a few years ago there was a website called "allofmp3.com" and it was basically any song you wanted for 10 cents. Assuming you were ok with sending your credit details to the Russian mob you could get whatever you wanted for chump change. Illegal, yes, but not by Russian standards. Next time you're in the itunes store set your homepage to Russia. The only thing Apple sells there are iphone apps... no music. Wonder why!

as an aside.. apologies if I came off sounding heavy on the cracks thing. I react pretty strongly to piracy as it affects my bottom line... and will continue to do so with the plans I currently have.