Turtlerock Forum

Hi Everyone

Been struggling with employment recently.. had a trial run at an AV installation company that did not eventuate. I have been looking for work the past 2 months and am starting to get concerned I do not actually know what a good role would be.

Let me give a brief history. Completed Diploma at SAE in '96. Worked as an analogue bin loop duplicator for a few months at Silver Track, then as an AV tech at Staging Connections, then rented a warehouse space in Artarmon and setup a tracking / mixing space with a 2 inch Ampex and ProTools. Ran the studio for 8 years. Hit a period of no bookings and gear breaking down, had to close the doors and re-assess how to make a crust.. went and did some IT training. In 07 worked for 20 months with an IT support company as a network technician, finished up in March. Been doing some freelance audio engineering / web design work since, and looking for another role. I am currently 31 years old.

I have come to the realisation that my passion and interests do not lie in the IT support realm, but rather in audio / video technology. This has always been the case but after working in the IT industry I really find IT support to be uninspiring. Even simple things like editing stereo mixes, converting video into the digital realm, burning CD's are far more interesting to me than troubleshooting an email bounce back error messages or helping a user who cannot login to the network.

I really want to find the kind of jobs that will tap into my true love. I realise that I'm not going to get a job in a rock n roll studio tracking the cool bands, in fact I have had a good go at that and do not expect that there will be a job like that floating around. My question to the forum is, what kind of jobs could someone who has audio engineering skills and certifications look for? What kind of positions require the knowledge? Things I have thought may be worth looking at so far have been CD / DVD Duplication companies, places like Foxtel and TV stations as an entry level tape operator or audio engineer.. see already I am struggling to think what kind of role or career I could investigate. Even further studies or an entry level role that has the potential to develop into something interesting.

Thanks for any advice, really hitting that wall of doubt lately.

Adz

I realise that I'm not going to get a job in a rock n roll studio tracking the cool bands

Wow sounds like your already beat. I think you have a better chance of creating your own work rather than looking for work. The jobs are just not there.
You could go down the live engineering road to get on your feet. Also you could get yourself a good signal chain, recorder of some sort,and monitoring. Set up something small and go from there.

SAE seem to go through a few instructors. They love hiring ex- students and you have had some experience under your belt.
Try there.
Go and get a real job and do audio part time like most of the rest of us.

13thbeach wrote:I think you have a better chance of creating your own work rather than looking for work.

You could go down the live engineering road to get on your feet.

Also you could get yourself a good signal chain, recorder of some sort,and monitoring. Set up something small and go from there.

Yeah one of my options is to get some part time IT support work, and setup another studio. I have another excellent engineer with some great gear wanting to go into a co-op, and we are looking at some spaces this weekend. Will take a while to build up the client base again though.

Am still doing some live sound work, but hardly enough to be a sole income...

I still have all my pro audio gear including the 2 inch 24 track, Dynaudio BM15's, DW Fearn and Neve pre's, Distressor, U87 & Royers... so I have the capacity to setup another facility but it really is a razor thin profit margin so I am reluctant to rely on it as my sole income source... in fact it will probably be a money pit to setup and get running properly. I must admit I have liked the constant paycheck that comes with a secure role in an organisation, and I guess the ideal situation for me is to land a role that even briefly touches upon my interests in AV... hmm

Sounds to me like you already know what you have to do.

HA_DA_JA wrote:SAE seem to go through a few instructors. They love hiring ex- students and you have had some experience under your belt.
Try there.
Go and get a real job and do audio part time like most of the rest of us.

Hey I'm not in fantasy land thinking I can get some awesome job in audio that you think you will get fresh out of SAE.. just after some suggestions as to what would be realistic roles to look at that may have some facet of audio / visual knowledge... I mean a lot of the roles in IT are just so mind numbing and actually demand a lot of your extra time to be on top of your game..

Phone support is pretty hard to stay enthusiastic about. A 12 hour day editing voice overs would be far more stimulating! I am just not sure where I can focus my interests to try and build some kind of career that will keep me interested.. an age old question I guess..

Trust me, editing and de-breathing voice overs all day is not fun. It's tiring and tedious work and annoys the hell out of me.

Sunrise (Ch7) is looking for an editor at the moment, if you're cool with 4am starts. A lot of work is never advertised... it's just word of mouth or you work with a producer/production company that calls you whenever they have a new gig on. Relationships are what gets me work more often than not. Unfortunately they're not something that can be pulled out of thin air.... they take time to build.

Another option is in the AV dept of a well setup school, esp private schools. The role has shifted from the Librarian/AV tape catalog role. While most have the head of AV from this background, they are often out of their depth at providing support to their music dept, drama dept and media studies. As a result many private schools employ an audio AND a video tech, not to repair gear as was the role in the past but to mix and record concerts, sound and lighting for drama productions, produce CD's and DVD's of the concerts, IB performance exams, set up and resource the music dept's "computer" music lab. etc etc

Here is a quick overview of how i have survived in this industry in the hope it gives you a few ideas.

After 15 yrs of youth work I started down the "recording engineer career path beginning in 94. A few years working at a studio while teaching guitar and playing gigs. I then left the studio as the pay was too low ant the business model was not working in my long tearm interests. I had a few kids and a mortgage so had a lot of drive to make it work . What gear i did'nt have i hired and I bulit up an income from a number of audio related streams. Teaching one day per week at TAFE, 2 half days and on call for events at a private school, running a PA for live shows, and doing lots of live recording with some walk in studio jobs. I had more front than Myers and certainly didn't get gigs because of the gear i had! While digital was expensive to get into, i bought an Otari 1/2 inch 8 track and many acts loved the idea of analogue live recordings, It also taught me to use only 3 mics on the kit or sub mix.etc etc. Hard work to keep the income steady but a lot of great times had. I soon found out what jobs to go for ie the ones that paid well, they became my primary "target market". Examples of how i found work....:

+ I was playing guitar for the Australian Pops Orchestra at the time filling in for their regular guitarist, and so by networking i got many corporate functions to provide sound for. Local Govt festivals.
+ Recorded the Blues Family Big Day Out CD for free with artists like Chain, Kev Borich,Chris Wilson, Jeff Lang etc,etc as it was a fundraiser for the CFA, many of those artists booked me to record their next live CD etc etc. and many other bands hired me because of that list of credits and ( please excuse the blatant brag) the recordings and mixes were good.
It took a LOT of work maintaing the work flow and shifting focus as circumstances in the market shifted.
After 7 yrs of this i did a few school productions and recorded a CD of a school jazz concert and that school created a job for me as my short time there demonstrated a need. They had never had the sound as good. They offered me good pay and with paid school holidays. Still at that job and running my home studio / live recording business as a a second income. Sure i would love to be full time in a studio and that may well happen down the track but for now this job is hard to beat.
I might as well add that a lot of professionals were providing a 2nd rate service to schools thinking "its not where the professionals are so why bother providing a first rate service. I used to get this attitude every time this school hired out Hamer Hall for the yearly speech night concert. Buying coffee for their FOH guy, building up a positive working relationship with realistic expectations and being a bit assertive when needed fixed this.
Hope this helps.

Thanks for the post Chris, some good advice. I have found schools don't really like the look of me though.. long hair, rocknroller type.. have gone to a couple of interviews for roles like this and I get a vibe they think I'm not corporate enough..

That may very well be the reason you're finding it difficult getting work. You only get on chance to make a first impression, as they say.

it really sucks...but it's true. There is the saying to never judge a book by its cover, but in the real world that's exactly what is done.

I spent last year in melbourne as the head of the audio dept for one of those private audio schools. It was basically entirely my decision on whether to hire someone or not. The number of sound guys that came in who were completely unsuitable to teach was staggering. I had a guy come in with 10+ years experience in live sound, but didn't believe in mobile phones or email. At least 20 years behind technology, completely missed the point that regardless of whether it was a live sound role or not it was actually a teaching role first, failed to dress appropriately for the interview (he wore thongs), I doubt he finished primary school. Now i was meant to hire him because he knows his craft? So what. It's just not that simple. I wouldn't care if you had long hair and looked like a rock n roller. How did you dress? What did you wear? You still have to put the effort in in that regard. Regardless of whether i think you're the duck's guts, if the manager sees you dressed not so appropriately then you've got no chance. If you want to teach qualifications help a lot. Look at the workplace training certificate thing from TAFE that all Tafe teachers must get, perhaps Chris H can tell you about that.

The guy i ended up hiring certainly doesn't look corporate, never did. But he dressed as good as a live guy's gonna dress (decent shirt, jeans, shoes is a start) for the interview. He'd never taught before, but i got a vibe off him that he would make a great teacher and he really is gifted in that area. You don't actually need qualifications of any sort to work at one of the private audio schools. You'll be working under the supervision of someone with a qualification, so that's how they get around that. They may want to see you working towards a qual. though.

If you really enjoy it, teaching is great, it pays for other things, and pays the rent. But qualifications are the way to go, and once you're in the door you're set.

Why do you need a qualification? Cause these schools are handing out degrees now, not advanced diplomas, and the government has a whole stack of rules surrounding compliance etc.

Rant over.

hey mark do you get any 'greater good' vibe from your job? or is it solely to pay the bills with your heart elsewhere

'scuse the prying question but i'd love to know!

I started with Recognition of prior learning due to my youthwork training and audio industry experience, then studied and got the
Certificate IV in Training and Assessment

Here is a quick cut and paste of options from RMIT:


There are a number of approaches which are available to our teachers wishing to
demonstrate competence or to show they meet qualification requirements.
1. Completion of VET teaching courses
2. Completion of other courses of study with equivalent outcomes for the
purposes of the MECA.
3. Recognition of Prior Learning (RPL)* including:
Project work
Professional development including Learnscope, WebCT training, RPL
projects, Employability Skills etc
TAFE Development Centre programs
Work activities
Teacher Induction programs?
* Note that on the web QTAFE 11 ‘Guidelines for confirming minimum
vocational competencies for teachers’ has a list of activities, some of
which would be applicable RPL for teaching.

Also:

Certificate IV in Training and
Assessment or Certificate IV in
Assessment and Workplace Training
(pre 2005 course)

Mark Andrew Bassett wrote:I spent last year in melbourne as the head of the audio dept for one of those private audio schools. It was basically entirely my decision on whether to hire someone or not. The number of sound guys that came in who were completely unsuitable to teach was staggering. I had a guy come in with 10+ years experience in live sound, but didn't believe in mobile phones or email. At least 20 years behind technology, completely missed the point that regardless of whether it was a live sound role or not it was actually a teaching role first, failed to dress appropriately for the interview (he wore thongs), I doubt he finished primary school. Now i was meant to hire him because he knows his craft? So what. It's just not that simple. I wouldn't care if you had long hair and looked like a rock n roller. How did you dress? What did you wear? You still have to put the effort in in that regard. Regardless of whether i think you're the duck's guts, if the manager sees you dressed not so appropriately then you've got no chance. If you want to teach qualifications help a lot. Look at the workplace training certificate thing from TAFE that all Tafe teachers must get, perhaps Chris H can tell you about that.

The guy i ended up hiring certainly doesn't look corporate, never did. But he dressed as good as a live guy's gonna dress (decent shirt, jeans, shoes is a start) for the interview. He'd never taught before, but i got a vibe off him that he would make a great teacher and he really is gifted in that area. You don't actually need qualifications of any sort to work at one of the private audio schools. You'll be working under the supervision of someone with a qualification, so that's how they get around that. They may want to see you working towards a qual. though.

If you really enjoy it, teaching is great, it pays for other things, and pays the rent. But qualifications are the way to go, and once you're in the door you're set.

Why do you need a qualification? Cause these schools are handing out degrees now, not advanced diplomas, and the government has a whole stack of rules surrounding compliance etc.

Rant over.

I worked for a while teaching in one of those places, I was working teaching one month after finishing my course there. If I wanted to be a teacher I would have gone to uni to become 1.

I learnt a great lesson also, I'm not a very good teacher. Oh and a second 1, I have a bad temper, sometimes.

Actually if I remember right the place still owes me 300 bucks from about 12 years ago, plus interest and inflation, could be a couple of grand, don't think I'll ever see it though.

If you really want to make money doing audio get a job doing film, a mate of mine finished a tafe protools and music production course about 3 years ago and has been working on massively huge budget films since, getting about 500 bucks a day when the work is on and when it is it goes for months at a time. Long days and gruelling deadlines but yeah 500 a day would de-stress me.

Actually this is the 2nd good mate who has achieved this, the first is now driving wheat harvestors, heh. Though he did work on a lot of huge films doing mixing.

Maybe I should get a haircut and have a bath too? Naaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

heathen wrote:Maybe I should get a haircut and have a bath too? Naaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

Just do it!!
;-)

TimS wrote:

heathen wrote:Maybe I should get a haircut and have a bath too? Naaaaaaahhhhhhhh.

Just do it!!
;-)

Yeah I suppose I should after being away for several days fishing and drinking.

Martin wrote:hey mark do you get any 'greater good' vibe from your job? or is it solely to pay the bills with your heart elsewhere

'scuse the prying question but i'd love to know!

I do love teaching, when it's great it's really really rewarding, but it's not great all the time.

Hey Mark were you at JCM? In the old Soundfirm building...I did some nice band recordings in there for a film. The composer I was assistant to had his office next door. I started across the road at AAV.

I was at JayEmCee.

Woop, yeah I meant Jeighyemsee...

shhhhh!

I've noticed that that 3 letter word does not seem to get mentioned around here, don't draw attention to it.

That 3 letter word and the other one (SAE)

Just been offered a part time IT job, which may fund the 2nd coming of a studio... got a few weeks to think it all over. Any good spaces for lease?!?

Thanks for the posts, yes I agree there are some engineers that are very skilled but would not look professional enough for a teaching gig... I certainly don't wear thongs, jeans or t shirts to interviews - white collar, tie, polished shoes, very professional demeanor. Good looking resume, punctual, and I always walk away from the interview thinking I smashed it... but in the last 2 months I have had at least 4 of these kick ass interviews to make it to 2nd or 3rd stage, to be told "I just think you would not be challenged enough in this role" or "you are an excellent candidate, someone just fit the profile a bit better, we are keeping your details on file". I am starting to think it is a DIS advantage to state I owned and ran a recording studio for 8 years, everyone thinks I will be bored doing anything else.

Adz

Mark Andrew Bassett wrote:JayEmCee.

Mark even edited his post so that it looks like a different word.