Turtlerock Forum

This is one of those stupid questions you find on GS....i know...but...i cant help but ask...

quite a bit of electronic music these days is released only as 320kbps.

What are your thoughts on the sound of that stuff VS WAVs??

In a word or three...gnarly top end. I hate the sound of it when played over a good quality pa system as the highs don't go as well with the compression drivers where as they might be passable when listening to ear buds and home /car systems.

Chris H wrote:In a word or three...gnarly top end. I hate the sound of it when played over a good quality pa system as the highs don't go as well with the compression drivers where as they might be passable when listening to ear buds and home /car systems.

i have that feeling also....

its so infuriating to know u cant purchase these tunes as FLAC or WAV....

the only hi fi option is vinyl, which im not interested in!!!

Hi there,

Hopefully it won't be long until uncompressed audio is the norm,
not the exception !

Cheers
N
Y
M
O

jkhuri44 wrote:quite a bit of electronic music these days is released only as 320kbps.

if you're lucky. 256kbps AAC is marketed "plus".*
All else being equal (which isn't the case due to variance in decoders), AAC sounds far better to me than mp3. But what really gets me is that "mp3" became a euphemism for digital music.
My mini campaign was telling friends & family that iPods/touches/phones do and always have supported "CD quality" wav. I think that's the least we can do. Fans of the visual arts don't visit galleries and put up with framed low res jpgs.

* Soundcloud isn't bad, comparatively.

I submit full size .wav's to Apple for itunes sales. If they wanted to do it the option would be there.

I've always been prepared to spend the extra seconds downloading a full size (as intended) audio file. Even more money!

MP3's have always equalled high end noise/distortion, crunchy catastrophic mess for me. I hate the format with all my heart.

Venting over. :)

MP3's are highly fatiguing to listen to, I know that a song that I am hearing is an MP3 because I get fidgety and can't sit quietly and enjoy the song.

MP3 quality (or lack thereof) really shows up on a good PA system. Especially if LF filtering has been applied to the file. The subs just don't move the way they should.

musikwerks wrote:MP3 quality (or lack thereof) really shows up on a good PA system. Especially if LF filtering has been applied to the file. The subs just don't move the way they should.

that is generall my main gripe.

its almost like night and day when a professional DJ steps on after a newbie.

The sound of mp3 aside, any file compression below 44.1, 16 bit seems unnecessary to me. Considering the cost and size of hard drives these days and the speed of ADSL2, why does a song need to be 5mb? I feel the same way about FLAC, its great that you can do lossless compression, but so what? All you end up with is a file that doesn't play in alot of programs or mp3 players, that only takes half as long to illegally download from torrent sites...


Anyway, i dont listen to electronic music and dont use iTunes, so it hasnt affected me.

spandex man wrote:Considering the cost and size of hard drives these days and the speed of ADSL2, why does a song need to be 5mb?

I feel the opposite.
My (rural) ADSL speed is about 1Mbps download.
That's the absolute fastest I can get round here.
It takes minutes to download mp3's and larger files can take an age.
I bought a few new pieces for my studio recently and had to download software updates and drivers etc.
It took all day. One update, which was 1gig in size took all night.
I'm on a 4gig plan because coming from the UK I find the plans and the cost of bandwidth extremely expensive.
After my week of updating my (friendly) ISP throttled me back to slow dial up pace and it took an age just to load up a front page like Turtlerock.
I fear the Libs getting in because they say Oz doesn't need a broadband update.

Anyway, a few of the electronic music sites I visit offer WAV's, most notably Beatport.

ChrisW wrote:

spandex man wrote:Considering the cost and size of hard drives these days and the speed of ADSL2, why does a song need to be 5mb?

I feel the opposite.
My (rural) ADSL speed is about 1Mbps download.
That's the absolute fastest I can get round here.
It takes minutes to download mp3's and larger files can take an age.
I bought a few new pieces for my studio recently and had to download software updates and drivers etc.
It took all day. One update, which was 1gig in size took all night.
I'm on a 4gig plan because coming from the UK I find the plans and the cost of bandwidth extremely expensive.
After my week of updating my (friendly) ISP throttled me back to slow dial up pace and it took an age just to load up a front page like Turtlerock.
I fear the Libs getting in because they say Oz doesn't need a broadband update.

Anyway, a few of the electronic music sites I visit offer WAV's, most notably Beatport.

have to agree with ChrisW here....downloading an alubm of WAVs is BS....i buy the stuff from digi shop, get it burnt and sent down....ADSL 2 is still not fast enough.....San Fran/Cali has internet protocols which download (specs) around 1gb a second....thats what u need for 16/44 transfers.

Yep Australia, 17 hours ahead of America and 20 years behind. I hate mp3 but...........as stated only broadband in major cities is fast enough for cd quality audio. Even at my parents place near Richmond the internet runs at a crawl. Here on the Northern Beaches I can get more around 5mps on speed test dot com occasionally, more usual is about 2mps.

My max speed is 600-700kbps, but has only peaked at that when downloading from the Digidesign website (the 4gb PT8 LE installer only took an hour and a half). On the opposite end of the spectrum, i bought Addictive Drums online and it took a whole day at 25kbps to download the 1.1gb file. I find my transfer speeds to be less dependant on my download bandwidth and more to do with where im downloading from.

Anyway, i guess im alone on this. As i say, i dont download alot of music, but i do download alot of other large files (TV shows, etc) that might take 2-3 hours and its never been a problem.

I've never checked around for it, but lately I've been converting CDs to Apple Lossless (finally joined the iPhone bandwagon), and while it doesn't compress much (about 60%, depending on source material), sound out is certainly the same as sound in (as you'd expect from something "lossless"). Just had a quick look on iTunes, and it doesn't appear to be an option there - at least not an easy to find one, anyway.

a.beck wrote:Just had a quick look on iTunes, and it doesn't appear to be an option there - at least not an easy to find one, anyway.

iTunes 9.1 > insert an audio disc > bottom of main window "Import settings" > Apple Lossless (or AIF/AAC/WAV/MP3). This is the stuff our non-tech friends & family are typically clueless about, so the way I see it, it really is up to us to tell them they can have better quality music on their iPod/Touch/Phone – for no extra cost. Up-sell it!


[i]"There’s nobody out there educating people to think that the “normalâ€

Adam Dempsey wrote:iTunes 9.1 > insert an audio disc > bottom of main window "Import settings" > Apple Lossless (or AIF/AAC/WAV/MP3). This is the stuff our non-tech friends & family are typically clueless about, so the way I see it, it really is up to us to tell them they can have better quality music on their iPod/Touch/Phone – for no extra cost. Up-sell it!.

Yeah, I know about this (otherwise how else would I have been using Apple Lossless recently? :)) - what I meant was that I couldn't find any way to purchase music in this format from the iTunes Store.

Sorry for being vague - I tend to do that a lot!

I agree with Bob Ludwig, my friend is a prime example, thought she could'nt hear stuff like that, well she can to her surprise, now the normal stereo system won't do anymore either, she likes listening through the Apogees now. :)

Yes, I'm using Apple Lossless in iTunes too, but I can't see a way to purchase in that format from the iTunes store.

heathen wrote:I agree with Bob Ludwig, my missus is a prime example, thought she could'nt hear stuff like that, well she can to her surprise, now the normal stereo system won't do anymore either, she likes listening through the Apogees now. :)

HA! thats it right there, thats the danger of educating people! ignorance is bliss,or so the politicians and religions would have us beleive.
If we dont nip this in the bud, we could find ourselves back in the dark days of vinyl!!!!
On a serious note though, whats the legal deal with taking your fave vinyl to a cafe for them to play it on their very good system? same as dj's?
cheers, Mick

thefridge wrote:

heathen wrote:I agree with Bob Ludwig, my missus is a prime example, thought she could'nt hear stuff like that, well she can to her surprise, now the normal stereo system won't do anymore either, she likes listening through the Apogees now. :)

HA! thats it right there, thats the danger of educating people! ignorance is bliss,or so the politicians and religions would have us beleive.
If we dont nip this in the bud, we could find ourselves back in the dark days of vinyl!!!!
On a serious note though, whats the legal deal with taking your fave vinyl to a cafe for them to play it on their very good system? same as dj's?
cheers, Mick

there are cafe's with very good systems?

Just a bit of a plan for a quality cafe ( called Vinyl of course, ) that punters could bring their own records to, and their mates , to drink and listen to say Aja on a half decent system, or whatever was their taste, maybe jazz one night, blues the next etc etc. I think it would be a moneymaker, for a while, but I have had some daft ideas before this one! Sorry about not sticking on topic,
cheers Mick

I don't know about Australia, but in the UK or US the Cafe would need to pay for a music licence - PRS/ASCAP/BMI.

The Longrain Thai restaurant in Sydney has a guy spinning vinyl on weekends.

ChrisW wrote:I don't know about Australia, but in the UK or US the Cafe would need to pay for a music licence - PRS/ASCAP/BMI.

The Longrain Thai restaurant in Sydney has a guy spinning vinyl on weekends.

In Oz, cafe's etc pay an APRA fee to play music. You should see the APRA sticker on the front door or window.

RE itunes
there is no way to upload to itunes as full bandwidth wav or aiff

the 2 back end apps that you do your uploading from to apple only support apple lossless mp4

so sticking with that format is fine when purchasing from itunes as every single release has been converted at the source label.

Also Re PPCA laws in australia
you dont necassarily need a license to play music in a cafe from PPCA/APRA

if you own the work you are fine, or you can do a deal with any label or aggregator of music that holds the rights
as a huge distributor of product in australia now Xelon Entertainment Ltd (over 40,000 tracks) can do deals directly, efficiently and cost effectively to clubs, bars, resteraunts ect.

All due respect Mark, but I don't know that you're right about the itunes uploads. I import all the time with .wav's and aiff's using itunes producer 2.0 software.

musikwerks wrote:All due respect Mark, but I don't know that you're right about the itunes uploads. I import all the time with .wav's and aiff's using itunes producer 2.0 software.

Yes, Apple takes uploads from 16/44k, providing you have the ISRC's. And not from high res mastered sources.
Then Apple converts it for their iTunes store, avail for download at 128 or 256kb/s AAC.
Ripping from discs for playback devices is, as mentioned, at the mercy of users' (mostly hidden) import prefs, but the devices support 16/44k wavs & aifs and always have.

You can't upload anything without ISRC's and a UPC barcode.