Turtlerock Forum

I've got one of these consoles with a couple of demons in it. Is there a good tech guy in the Sydney region that people could recommend that I take it to to get an exorcism done on it?

Cheers,
Roy.

Roy wrote:I've got one of these consoles with a couple of demons in it. Is there a good tech guy in the Sydney region that people could recommend that I take it to to get an exorcism done on it?

Cheers,
Roy.

A couple of months ago I needed a tech to sort out some gremlins in my console. I'd recapped the whole thing, but there were certain things I needed doing that I wasn't entirely confident with.

So I called around to a few techs in Sydney. They either a) didn't return my calls b) wouldn't come to my studio to do work or c) charged double what I was prepared to pay. ie I don't think >$75/hour is reasonable for a tech.

So, I called Mr Rob Squire in Adelaide. He (reluctantly) agreed to come over to Sydney and work for three days solid. I paid for his airfare and expenses, and it still worked out cheaper than an equivalent tech in Sydney.

And for the record, he is one of the best techs I've come across. I would have absolutely no hesitation in recommending him for anything (racking, fixing, installs). Others that I've met have echoed my sentiments.

I'd like to get him back, but there's only a few things that need doing. Ideally, 3 or 4 studios in Sydney would need stuff done and we go thirds or fourths in getting him over here. I think last time he even helped a fellow boardmember fix their chandler PS (aearth??)

Anyway, something to consider. His website is www.proharmonic.com

Cheers

Chris

Thanks Chris! It certainly sucks that good help is so hard to find that you had to go interstate. But it's good to hear he was worth it.

No Roy, good help is not so hard to find, unless you want it for half price.

cheers,

Otto (a tech)

otto ruiter wrote:No Roy, good help is not so hard to find, unless you want it for half price.

cheers,

Otto (a tech)

Not quite.

Good help is easier to find if you're prepared to pay double what it's worth.

Chris

I think that if you truly value something you will pay whatever is asked.

I know there are people on this forum who are very highly skilled as techs. I see them here at my workplace laying thousands of feet of cable, removing windows to load enormous pieces of gear via cranes, designing rooms and installing the gear so it works like it should. They don't come cheap but I know that when they do their job they enable me to do mine. I'll pay whatever they ask for that sort of security.

There are some great techs in Sydney.... Howard Jones, Kevin Mooy, Otto Ruiter...plus all the ones I'm sure I don't know if.

Remember, you get what you pay for.

Kris wrote:I think that if you truly value something you will pay whatever is asked.

I know there are people on this forum who are very highly skilled as techs. I see them here at my workplace laying thousands of feet of cable, removing windows to load enormous pieces of gear via cranes, designing rooms and installing the gear so it works like it should. They don't come cheap but I know that when they do their job they enable me to do mine. I'll pay whatever they ask for that sort of security.

There are some great techs in Sydney.... Howard Jones, Kevin Mooy, Otto Ruiter...plus all the ones I'm sure I don't know if.

Remember, you get what you pay for.

Some things need clarifying here.

I am not questioning the skill or ability of techs. I'm sure that any tech worth his or her mettle does a very fine job.

That isn't the issue at hand. The issue is what is a reasonable amount to ask for these services? And more importantly, what am I prepared to pay (or more often, what can I afford?) Paying 'whatever is asked' to me is fiscally retarded, and not even NASA operates with an open chequebook these days.

So the issue is two different techs charge differing amounts for doing the same job. Unless you were spending someone elses money, then you would naturally choose the cheaper option.

And thanks to federation, an open labour market and cheap airfares, I went with the cheaper option.

Chris

So who decides what's a reasonable amount to pay? You? I'm sure that if the client was the one to decide what rate of pay should be applied to any service then we'd all be in dire straits. Can I come to your studio and tell you how much I want to pay even if it's below your rate, just because I think you're charging too much? I think not.

As for the "whatever they ask"....obviously I'm talking within reason. As for the abiltiy of the tech, I simply aligned the skill of the tech with the rate of pay. As an example, I've approached a Nashville based engineer to mix a song for me. Let's not argue over using a US mix engineer.... my reasons are my reasons..... but he has quoted me a price and I will not dare try and haggle him down. To do so would be an insult and would make me look like a tool (or a bigger tool....depends on who you talk to). Why would he do my mix for less money when he's doing gold and platinum albums every other week? You want the best then it's going to cost you. In some cases it may well be overcooked but usually it's quite within reason.

Kris wrote:So who decides what's a reasonable amount to pay? You? I'm sure that if the client was the one to decide what rate of pay should be applied to any service then we'd all be in dire straits. Can I come to your studio and tell you how much I want to pay even if it's below your rate, just because I think you're charging too much? I think not.

Well that's easy. I decide how much I'm prepared to pay. The supplier of the service decides how much they want to charge. When the two meet, a transaction happens.

If I believe the amount charged is reasonable, then I'll accept it. If I decide it's not reasonable, then I won't and I'll probably look elsewhere. Simple economics really.

If I think the price is too high everywhere (or I can't afford it) then nothing gets done and I live with broken equipment, which is the price I pay for being a tight-arse.

I've set a rate at the studio as I believe that's what it's worth. If you come and decide that you're only willing to pay less, then I'll tell you to look elsewhere. You can tell me whatever you want about rates, it's my choice about what I decide to charge.

I didn't approach techs and tell them they charge too much and that I'm only prepared to pay $X dollars per hour. I just went elsewhere, which is the polite thing to do really.

As for the "whatever they ask"....obviously I'm talking within reason. As for the abiltiy of the tech, I simply aligned the skill of the tech with the rate of pay. As an example, I've approached a Nashville based engineer to mix a song for me. Let's not argue over using a US mix engineer.... my reasons are my reasons..... but he has quoted me a price and I will not dare try and haggle him down. To do so would be an insult and would make me look like a tool (or a bigger tool....depends on who you talk to). Why would he do my mix for less money when he's doing gold and platinum albums every other week? You want the best then it's going to cost you. In some cases it may well be overcooked but usually it's quite within reason.

This really depends on what sort of service you're talking about. If I want a tech to come and fix something, that's what I expect to happen. There are standards that I expect when carrying out this work, but it's not very subjective (either the thing is fixed, or it is not fixed). Easily quantifyable. So in effect I've got competent techs charging differing amounts. Why would I choose the more expensive option?

I know that Linear Chris doesn't need me to defend him, but he's right in saying that his position is classic supply/demand curve microeconomics. He's not obliged to buy services he thinks are too expensive, and others are not obliged to sell their services to him at a price below that they find acceptable. That may well leave him with lots of broken stuff, but that's the name of the game.

That's true whether you're buying a mic from Gunter, getting your latest crash and burn mastered at Turtlerock or flying a techie down from China to fix your console for a bowl of rice a day and sleeping on your doormat.

"You get what you paid for?" I only wish that applied to landscape gardening!

Kris wrote:I'm sure that if the client was the one to decide what rate of pay should be applied to any service then we'd all be in dire straits.

ummm, they do, and we are.

potentially an interesting discussion team!
As a technician ( and as an aside, the tech that visited Chris' studio ) i'm very interested in what engineers and studio owner's reckon is reasonable, not only what rates a tech charges but what other expectations that they may have ( ie availability, turn around times, on-site visit etc etc ).

You see, i feel sometimes like i'm part of a dying trade. Some measure of this must be that over the past 2 years i've made about 8 interstate trips to service studios. I know that there are good techs in all the eastern states, i know this because i do defer to them and seek their advice and assistance myself. But they must be thin on the ground and not short of work to do.

I feel some responsibilty to attract "apprentices" to the trade and after years of looking for people have now found a couple who seem up for it. But there is a fundamental problem attracting people to work in this area and unfortuantely it is about money. Traditionally electronics techs are have been one of the lowest paid trades.
I do scratch my head about the fact that a mate of mine is a plumber who earns twice what i do, works probably half the hours i do and hasn't really had to learn much new for years now. Whereas if i stopped my "education" i'd slowly erode my ability to do the work. He left school when he was 15, i spent 3 years at university.

Don't misunderstand me...this isn't sour grapes. I do what i do because i've been doing it since i was 10 years old and it is more of a passion than a way to earn $$. Never the less i need to live and like all of us is entitled to be rewarded for my efforts.
The world of the recording studio has changed enormously over the last 30 years and this has impacted on the support areas as much as any other.

So what is a "reasonable rate" is a pertinent question to be discussed amongst those of us in the industry.
(PS : if my missus gets her way my rates will be going up! )

now back to the soldering iron

Rob

rob,
your cheap, reliable and you have a big box of my stuff on your bench to fix up
please dont go putting your rates up this week !


maybe i should rephrase that
your value for money and dedication to the cause keeps you working 2000 miles from the scene of the crime.

you could not begin to maintain your rates or enthusism with the cost of living in sydney nor can any of the local techs
its a hard slog around town at the moment they all need to charge $50 per hour more then they do !

but your pretty a lucky fellow your job offers you the chance of travel interstate to spend your time on your back underneath mixing consoles ( the places where nobody ever vacuumed) with a soldering iron between your teeth and wire snips hanging on your ears and with the mobile phone two feet out of reach every time it rings
cool !
there is a reason i do not work as a tech - its too hard !