Turtlerock Forum

A few weeks back I went to the dentist. Had a really sore jaw for a few days after, then my hearing went strange and I started to lose my sense of balance, bumping into walls etc (no it wasn't the red wine!). Went to the doc, inner ear infection, onto anti-biotics and anti-nausea tablets (help with the dizziness).

Needless to say, I've had to put off some clients jobs until I could HEAR WHAT I'M DOING! How freakin' frustrating. Everything sounded like it was under water, and I pretty much couldn't tolerate any low frequencies - they'd just go 'flub flub flub' and it felt like my eardrums were flapping! Also did a few gigs, and even with earplugs it was torture.

Bloody awful experience, very unsettling. Pretty good now, almost back to 100%. Hope to be able to finish some final mixes this week / weekend, but still don't know if I fully trust what I'm hearing.

I'm tellin' ya folks, you gotta look after those ears! It's damn scary when they let you down....

i never let my dentist stick anything in my ear heh. seriously though, that is scary and bizaar... and just one more reason to put off going to the dentist

Good to hear your getting better Nado

Any ear advice from your doc, dentist or other?

Hud wrote:Good to hear your getting better Nado

Any ear advice from your doc, dentist or other?

Not likely! It's funny, a couple of weeks after the dentist chick called me as a follow up if everything was ok. I told her what was happening, and they had no idea what to do with it! Really threw them....lol

@kalkman, another funny thing, it was my first time at the dentist since (wait for it) 1985!!!! He said I was pretty good considering, only need a coupla fillings, but it did take a bit to get up the guts to go in the first place. Kind of put me off going back for the second installment!!

Perhaps there was no connection between the two events, but still rattled me....

Considering the inner ear is connected to the mouth by the Eustachian tube, it's not so surprising that infections can pass from one to the other.

audioio wrote:Considering the inner ear is connected to the mouth by the Eustachian tube, it's not so surprising that infections can pass from one to the other.

True!

I've also heard those Eustachian tubes work great in Fenders, particularly the NOS versions....

nado1969 wrote:I've also heard those Eustachian tubes work great in Fenders, particularly the NOS versions....

I think I have the NOS versions, but I can't vouch for their effectiveness!

i see people on a daily basis with hearing impairment. i spend most of the time fitting hearing aids (changing people's lives with directional mics, compression and EQ!) however these are simply making the most of what people have left, which for some isnt much.

even though he only had a temporary hearing loss, i'd like to echo the comments made by nado, take care of your hearing. i've seen countless engineers (mechanical/civil/construction etc.) and war vets with no hearing above 2 kHz that have squillions of dollars and they all think a set of $10,000 hearing aids will help them hear better when they do about as much good as a walking stick for a person without a pair of legs.

if you havent already do yourself a favour and purchase a set of moulded ear plugs and get your hearing tested.

Hi Peter
Nice to have an expert on this topic.
Can you recommend the best audio quality fitted earplugs on the market?
I work with a few people who want me to monitor way too loud at times - and I want to get a good pair of plugs that I can use in a control room situation - as well as band rehearsal's and gigs.
But audio quality is really important.
It would be nice to know from an expert what brand plugs are considered to be the best quality.
What sort of $ would I be looking at for such plugs.
Thanks in advance

not an expert chris, but just by having a pair, i dont think you'r going to get anything considered flat...just by the nature of what earplugs do... i think the louder the area you're in, the louder the high end will get and the more "flat" things will sound.

i have a pair of Resound musicians airplugs, cost me $170. with -20dB attenuation. i've also just ordered a 40dB pair of non musician attenuators for gigs....the later are not flat, they cut off shitloads of high end tho...

Basically, i've learned this the hard way, but not even ear plugs will "protect" your ears...avoiding loud sounds over long periods does...i'm pretty religious with wearing mine, and my tinnitus has increased in the last year...so im laying off gigs period...at least for now.

http://noiseguard.com.au/musicians/

$330 a pair, but pretty flat. Someone used to make ones with interchageable inserts , like 15 and 25 dB.

Noiseguard seem to be in Melb - I need to find them in Sydney though.
I do imagine that nothing would be flat - but as flat as poss would be best as most of the use would be in the control room, and wondering into a live room to adjust mics while someone is playing loud

Chris, if you google 'ultimate ears' they have agents all over. They do awesome in ear monitoring but also make custom earplugs as well. I know they definitely have agents in Sydney. Somewhere.

I had my UE IEM impressions done at Allen Fisher Acoustics in Castle Hill. They're also in Balgowlah, Hornsby, Lindfield, Mona Vale and Ryde. http://www.allen-fisher.com

You should be able to sent the impressions to any company that makes custom earplugs or IEMs.

Thanks guys - Its time to get them.

Unfortunately, I've tried all of the earplugs around, including the specialty custom moulded 'muscians' plugs, and I don't think any of them are ok. I don't really feel comfortable doing shitty pick up gigs with them, and certainly wouldn't want to be tracking a session with them in. Every now and then I'll wear one on the drummers side on a tight stage, but that's the only time I use them. But sure, they are a lot better than foam plugs- you still hear high end, but they really change the upper mids- I can't hear the attack on my guitar with them in.

Of course the only real answer is that everything should be quieter- I'm sick of gigs that are so loud that solo singer/guitarists are painful, and kick drums rattle the unnecessary subs, but I'm obviously in the minority on that one (and it's a completely different issue than ear plugs too!)...

A big artist that I have spent the last 3 years working with loves the monitors absolutely cranked for much longer periods than I would ever do - and because he is inspired by this, then I want him to be able to crank it - even though I do turn it down at times and move away from the console.
I want to be able to slip on the plugs and spend an hour with the speakers on fire right in the monitoring position .

I'd definitely track on them for the odd situation once I'd pulled a sound, and Its still a better choice than ear damage. To me this is no different to recording a live album IE - the monitoring is way too loud and you need your instincts.
My next studio will not have a control room - I'll be with the band in the same room ala Real World's main studio.
I've also been using builders earmuffs for years in live rooms when going in to adjust a mic while a band is playing.
but It aint look so polite wearing builders earmuffs in the control room.......

Ive got tinnitus now - the last 2 years I have given them a fair hiding (with said artist)
Time for the best quality plugs one can get one's hands (ears) on -
I'm just about to go into many more sessions like this too... so this topic is very timely.

Its good to know now these IEM company's are making earplugs - that's very promising - and the technology must be getting better over time as far as not sounding too horrible

The biggest problem with aiming for "flat" sounding ear plugins has to do with ear canal resonance. Everyone's ear canals generally boost around 2-3 kHz and depending on the dimensions it might range from 10 to 25 dB SPL of a boost.

Putting an ear plug in your ear obviously kills this resonance I doubt the companies that design ear plugs put much thought into compensating for the loss of the resonance as it changes from person to person. Basically what this means is that even if you could have the perfect ear plug that does attenuate all frequencies equally by XdB, you are going to lose somewhere between 10-25 dB at around 2-3 kHz on top of that which for anyone with audio training is a very noticeable amount, and it why ear plugs can sound dull (and it's probably why Alistair doesnt like them).

So realistically the flattest set of ear plugs I could recommend in a studio environment would actually be a set of closed headphones set to a lower volume where you are still getting the ear canal resonance, and for live musicians an active in-ear system where you can compensate with equalisation. In terms of brands of hearing aids I've got a pair of Phonak musicians plugs with interchangeable attenuators and a pair of Phoenix plugs i just got last week. You cant really go wrong with GN Resound or Phoenix, however make sure you have no wax in your ears before getting them made, and you don't really need more than 15 dB of attenuation; a normal rock band would be about 100 dB SPL which would be attenuated to 85 dBSPL with your plugs, or safe listening level for 8 hours.

You could actually get an audiologist to tell you the resonance of your ear canal, we measure it all the time when setting up hearing aids because we have to compensate for the loss of resonance. You could then get the live sound engineer to boost your wedge by that amount when you are wearing ear plugs? Just a thought...

i just checked out http://noiseguard.com.au/musicians/ and it seems this design of ear plug actually takes into account resonance of the ear canal. it's still too variable from person to person to be 100% legit, but i guess these ear plugs would be your best bet.

Thanks Peter
This is great info - I had no idea of the extreme differences in frequency response between various peoples ear canals.
Makes sense - its same as in reverse situation - why a vocalists mouth shape/size would affect the frequency's coming out.

one extra thing i should probably add is the resonance also makes uppoer midrange the most sensitive region of your hearing in terms of noise exposure.

"noise" e.g. industrial machines, loud music, tools etc. is normally a broadband sound which the ear canal applies that 2-3 kHz boost to. whilst ageing slowly causes downward deterioration from 20 kHz, it is actually 3-6 kHz that will deteriorate faster and at a younger age if a person is exposed to noise exposure.

for people in music/audio industry it's also worth getting hearing checks to know you aren't compensating for a loss in that area.

Some of the manufacturers at least take this into account. From Noisguard :
Accurate sound reduction is achieved by combining a patented filter with the specific acoustics of a custom earmould. The combination of the two produces a resonance at approximately 2700 Hz (as in the normal ear) resulting in a smooth, flat attenuation.
Chris have you seen that Ultimate Ears make what they call "Reference in ear monitors"? Supposed to be able to pull sounds on them etc..

Thanks a lot Andy
This post here gives me much more confidence on knowing where to start.
I was thinking in the past I would go to one of these places and they would only recommend the brand they stock - without knowing other more up to date designs.
I have been wary of wasting my money on something I despise wearing.
Cheers

I've used several brands over the years supplied by my employer. The last set were from a mob specialising in industrial noise. These were the worst sounding and most uncomfortable.

My current pair I purchased from - http://www.earmonitorsaustralia.com/

Murray is very knowledgeable and pretty much laughed when i showed him the industrial ones, wrong plastic, no filter. I think you can get molds done by his agents??

The other set I liked but didn't sound as good as EMA were from here -
Symphony Hearing logo
Address: 597 St Kilda Rd, Melbourne, VIC, 3004
Phone number: 1300 663 307
http://www.symphonyhearing.com.au

I know these are in Melb but thought i'd share as I think this is a very important topic, once its gone........

I had some molded earplugs done a few years ago by some guy who came on site and did the molds, can't remember the name. They've got ER15 removable/interchangeable filters, and sometimes work ok, but I've never felt they fit properly. They just make things sound strange. I've gone back to stuffing in the foam ones for gigs - I know they roll off the top end etc, so I kind of compensate. Plus, my band is making a concerted effort to keep the stage level down, and that is helping a LOT.

Perhaps I need to try another set of molded earplugs....I use the ones I've got a bit still, and sometimes they seem to work ok, other times I can't use them and revert to the foamies. Don't know whats going on.

When I was gigging regularly I got a set of molded plugs made but could never wear them comfortably on stage - in front of the speakers as a punter, or when putting mics on things like kick drums / loud amps they're great but I kept feeling like I was missing something when performing. Solution for me was to stand a little further away from the drummer and (fortunately) be playing in a band that balanced their sound on stage by turning the amps down and trusted the FOH engineer to get the balance right for the audience.

Its a sad life for those of us who love BOTH music and Formula 1 motor racing. Those things don't have mufflers!

chris p wrote:Its a sad life for those of us who love BOTH music and Formula 1 motor racing. Those things don't have mufflers!

What, drummers?