Turtlerock Forum

Hi Guys,

I know this is a little different scope for this forum, but I figured there are some very knowledgeable guys who do some tv broadcasting either lurking or commenting.

I realise this is probably a massive topic too. So any help is appreciated!

I've recently been diving into the DLSR video shooting scene, and I've created a 1 minute advertisement (originally targeted for web use) for a local cafe. They're really happy with the results, and are about to re-sign up for their TV Advertising campaign in January. They would like to use my video (cut to 15 and 30 second spots) instead of their previous ad.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience on the settings I should use for both video and audio.

I've shot at 23.98fps with NTSC at 1080p. (I know they're american standards - this was originally going to be a test only)

I've done the editing in Apple Final Cut Pro X (don't laugh) and I have Apple Compressor for video conversions. (which I know very little about)

I recorded the audio in Reaper and put it into FCP for the backing track at 24bit 48khz.

So my questions are:
what file format
what compression scheme (or uncompressed)
what Frame Rate
Interlaced or Progressive
What aspect ratio
(do I have to think about cropping of the image?)
What about broadcast safe colours
What should my audio peak or average be (-6 db average?)

Any help appreciated as I'd like to be armed with a little foreknowledge before I try communicating with the TV station. I'm probably going to get some raised eyebrows from them, "what's this amateur doing".

Here is an unfinished cut:
http://vimeo.com/34067539

Nothing like jumping in at the deep end. haha.

Hi Dwayne, I can only answer some of that, I just do music not pictures -
- All the stuff at the studio is uncompressed on digi betacam master tapes, 25 frames per second PAL, 16:9 aspect ratio and need clappers at the head saying all the details - agency, product, title, key number, audio production etc and a countdown that goes to black at 2 seconds from the start of the ad.
- They also need to start at certain timecode points (the timecode is striped on the timecode track of the digi betacam tape), so the first version usually at timecode 1minute 30 seconds, the second cut at 3minutes 30 seconds.
- In Australia, you need to have 12 frames of silence at the start and end of the ad. So in reality, for a 30 second the pictures run 30, but the audio only runs 29 seconds. If you have audio in the first 12 frames or last 12 it will be rejected.
- 24 bit 48K audio. Audio has to be OP48 compliant and this needs to be stated on the leader on the master. If you google this you should be able to get the specs online at Free TV Australia. It is a standard in relation to audio levels and loudness, and again if it doesn't comply it will be rejected.
- From there the master is sent to a distribution company like Dubsat or Adstream who send it to stations, but if you only have one station to deliver to you would only need a digi beta master made.
- I'd suggest you do it on your system, make sure the audio is right and take the uncompressed video file to a post place or finishing house and have them put the versions on a digi master for you at the relevant timecode postions and even generate the leaders and countdown and include that in the cost.
Maybe someone here has more to do with pics and can add more...

Here's a link to a pdf of Adstream requirements which includes a lot of specs you can check out -

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j ... dzOKsM_pZg

Hey Andy!

Thanks for the long reply! I'll have to digest that carefully.

I'm reading through the Adstream Specs now. Lots of stuff I didn't realise. Like keeping titles within a 4:3 ratio on 16:9 footage. The 12 seconds before and after was suprising too. This is great stuff. I'll try and figure it out so that I'm at least forewarned of issues they might mention.

Of course, if anyone else has any other suggestions or information - don't be shy! lol.

Andy pretty much summed it up!
nath

Hey Dwayne, there's some really nice shots in there, you have a good eye. Without turning this into a photography thread, it's amazing how good you can get stuff with DSLR's nowdays. Have you come across the Magic Lantern firmware for some of the Canon cameras :
http://vimeo.com/groups/magiclantern
I have it on mine. Turns a mid price camera into a beast. Like I said I don't do pictures, just overproduce holiday videos, much to the wife's dismay.

Thanks Andy!

yeah dslr's are great! havent played with magic lantern much yet. waiting for the unified 5d firmware so that I can use timelapse bulb ramping feature. (and tidier than using an external intervalometer). I want to master the day to night transition in timelapse.

I shot that footage on the CINEMA picture style, which I absoluletly love. Doesnt crush the blacks as quickly.
http://cineplus.ch/cinema.html

You do lose about 1 stop of exposure since it darkens the footage slightly. Me and another friend have discovered that usng the Technicolor Cinestyle picture style in low light (where you have no cntrol overlighting) is great for still getting detail in the blacks in low light shooting. We would probably only colour the footage, but not adjust exposure at all in post.

Oh I also kill all sharpening, no contrast, no saturatin and about two down from centre on the color for the best results on CINEMA ps. The sharpening particularly takes it from looking cam corder to filmic I think.

love this stuff!

oh, I got my own website that Im working on too with my test footage and timelapse tests. Leaning as I go. I think of it as a scrapbook so that I can reference.

www.dwanehollands.com

oh also. I used a small tungsten (2800K) fluro bulb in a small light stand to light that video. made a huge differnce and made the wood look beautiful, the copper and chrome glowed beautiful, backlighting the steam and Sihlhoueting bec whioe she was standng.

one more...

The best lighting videos I have found. Simple to understand.
http://philipbloom.net/2011/12/14/dslrlighting/
http://philipbloom.net/2011/12/21/eve2/

I hope this helps someone...

Does anyone know where to get a plugin that measures OP48 Loudness? I've set my L1 Ultramaximizer to -0.2 and it's bouncing around the -15db in reaper and peaking about -12db. But is there any way to get an accurate reading against the standard?

DwaneHollands wrote:Hi Guys,

I know this is a little different scope for this forum, but I figured there are some very knowledgeable guys who do some tv broadcasting either lurking or commenting.

I realise this is probably a massive topic too. So any help is appreciated!

I've recently been diving into the DLSR video shooting scene, and I've created a 1 minute advertisement (originally targeted for web use) for a local cafe. They're really happy with the results, and are about to re-sign up for their TV Advertising campaign in January. They would like to use my video (cut to 15 and 30 second spots) instead of their previous ad.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience on the settings I should use for both video and audio.

I've shot at 23.98fps with NTSC at 1080p. (I know they're american standards - this was originally going to be a test only)

I've done the editing in Apple Final Cut Pro X (don't laugh) and I have Apple Compressor for video conversions. (which I know very little about)

I recorded the audio in Reaper and put it into FCP for the backing track at 24bit 48khz.

So my questions are:
what file format
what compression scheme (or uncompressed)
what Frame Rate
Interlaced or Progressive
What aspect ratio
(do I have to think about cropping of the image?)
What about broadcast safe colours
What should my audio peak or average be (-6 db average?)

Any help appreciated as I'd like to be armed with a little foreknowledge before I try communicating with the TV station. I'm probably going to get some raised eyebrows from them, "what's this amateur doing".

Here is an unfinished cut:
http://vimeo.com/34067539

Nothing like jumping in at the deep end. haha.

Hi Dwayne,

Firstly, nice cut.

Secondly, My opinion is that preparing video to meet broadcast requirements isn't something that you really want to be jumping into without some fairly heavy experience backing you up.

Think of it as the Video equivilent of being a Mastering Engineer.

I would recommend that you advise the client that in order to meet network broadcast requirements you will need to send the video to a Post Production facility and have them prepare it for broadcast

It isn't cheap, but it usually works out cheaper to do it once properly, rather than keep going back and forth repeatedly.

*Disclaimer* I am a online editor at a largish post production facility

Simon "Smash" Ashby

Going by that logic nobody would ever have a go at anything... Read up, learn what's required, have a go. Tell the client that that is what you are doing and that you'll may fail. Have a fall-back plan.

smash wrote:Hi Dwayne,

Firstly, nice cut.

Secondly, My opinion is that preparing video to meet broadcast requirements isn't something that you really want to be jumping into without some fairly heavy experience backing you up.

Think of it as the Video equivilent of being a Mastering Engineer.

I would recommend that you advise the client that in order to meet network broadcast requirements you will need to send the video to a Post Production facility and have them prepare it for broadcast

It isn't cheap, but it usually works out cheaper to do it once properly, rather than keep going back and forth repeatedly.

*Disclaimer* I am a online editor at a largish post production facility

Simon "Smash" Ashby

Kurt wrote:Going by that logic nobody would ever have a go at anything... Read up, learn what's required, have a go. Tell the client that that is what you are doing and that you'll may fail. Have a fall-back plan.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk here, and I'm very much aware that I got my start because people we're willing to let me have a go, and let me stretch beyond where my abilities lied.

That said, meeting the extremely strict requirements needed for broadcast TV isn't something that you want to just "have a go at".

Two very quick examples; The colour legalize plugin in FCP isn't totally accurate - so videos mayl have illegal colour.
FCPX can not display interlaced footage, which is the format used by every single SD channel in Australia.

Like I said, I'm all for having a go, but the difference here is mixing a record in Garage Band, Vs turning up to Air Studios and knowing how to drive the SSL...

Simon "Smash" Ashby

TV stations are regularly playing video that's obviously ripped straight from youtube, pretty sure they're not sending it out to post-production houses for the 30 second feel-good story at the end of the news, they must have in-house ways of making it meet standards though?

Like I said, have a fall-back plan, if it turns to shit, send it to you, or someone like you...

smash wrote:

Kurt wrote:Going by that logic nobody would ever have a go at anything... Read up, learn what's required, have a go. Tell the client that that is what you are doing and that you'll may fail. Have a fall-back plan.

I'm really not trying to be a jerk here, and I'm very much aware that I got my start because people we're willing to let me have a go, and let me stretch beyond where my abilities lied.

That said, meeting the extremely strict requirements needed for broadcast TV isn't something that you want to just "have a go at".

Two very quick examples; The colour legalize plugin in FCP isn't totally accurate - so videos mayl have illegal colour.
FCPX can not display interlaced footage, which is the format used by every single SD channel in Australia.

Like I said, I'm all for having a go, but the difference here is mixing a record in Garage Band, Vs turning up to Air Studios and knowing how to drive the SSL...

Simon "Smash" Ashby

Ooh. Just missed these replies. Sorry about that!

Thanks for the reponse guys. Appreciate it.

Im just on leave with limited Internet access. North Queensland!

I've cut two 15 secOnd spots (15s is not much time!) The customer is happy with them and we've asked the television station if they can 'master' them for us. I'm waiting for my customer to get back to me on what they say.

I would lOve to master the art of mastering video for broadcasting though.

I 'conformed' my 23.98 to 25 using apple compressor so it Plays a little quicker. (I will shoot 25fps pal from noW on)

I saw that fcpx broadcast safe colours, but I havent used it yet. I'm hoping they will master for us.

Gotta post this before I stuff up the iPhone typing thing.

last time i did TV stuff, the limiter on my compressor was set to -12dB (peak)...from memory, i got that number from a TV guidelines document which i was sticking to.

you dont want TV stuff to be that dynamic....gotta think about "popcorn noise" as well or...people eating dinner, or cooking whilst listening to your add...

Tell that to the film guys Jamil, I can't stand the way new films are mixed, most are terrible, way too dynamic for TV. I always have to adjust the volume control on the tele and I'm sick of it, every gunshot nearly blows your window out, then you can't here the dialogue because it's dull, muffled, and too quiet. Real gunshots just don't have that much bass and real conversation is not usually that muffled.

Watch a Dirty Harry or something else from the 70's or 80's and you never have to adjust controls.

That's my whinge for the day.

i dont understand wtf these fuckers getting paid good money are getting paid for, honestly.