*RESULTS** SDC Mic (and others) Shootout- Melbourne

[Lee Cardan]

This'll be fun
I've been wanting to compare Gefell M582 valve mic body with gefell SDC capsules against Mojave MA-100 (valve small condenser) for a while now, and if anyone has a pair of Neumann KM-54 or similar that we could also listen to that'd be fantastic.
Spoke to Myles and he's up for bringing the Gefells, great start

While we're at it see how those compares against the likes of:

- Gefell MV692 / UM70 (solid state transformer mic body with M7 LDC capsule)
- AKG C12-B (valve LDC, the original 414 with brass capsule and valve/transformer body)
- Coles 4038
- Mercenary KM-69 (anyone got a pair of Neumann KM-84 to contribute?)
- Beyerdynamic MC930 (smooth non-valve sdc)
- Beyerdynamic M101 (dynamic omni)
- AEA R88 stereo ribbon (Fraser ! )

and whatever else we can get our hands on

This would be at eastern bloc studios in Hawthorn
I'd love to hear of any interest, what days suit best, what you can bring! and we can start to think about a date

Happy days

[mylesgm]

I can also add a c414 with brass capsule, soon a km88 (dual km84 capsules) and a pair of km85s, plus mv691 (to add to the 692), a pair of JZ bt201 SDCs, and a chinese stereo ribbon. can we get through all that?

[Lee Cardan]

I think so
I can prepare as much as possible before hand
We can leave a reference pair up and alternate comparing sets, match levels

Drummer and acoustic guitar will be organised
Any other instruments you think would be useful to compare? (piano not really an option at this stage)

We could start the comparison around lunch and 2-3 hours should do it
Then we could record some live tracks for the guys contributing their time

Thinking of late May

[mylesgm]

tambourine... transients/hi freq/decay.

[Chris H]

Would be interesting to hear how my ACM 310's stack up. I have a km85 pair but sadly one has gone on the blink.

[mylesgm]

I forgot I could bring a pair of those too!

[audioio]

I can also add ... a chinese stereo ribbon.

How about a Speiden stereo ribbon? (That's a Royer SF12 but when Bob Speiden was building them.)

[Ender]

I've got a single BN Lulu Fet, which is pitched in that KM-84 ballpark if that's of interest for comparison.

[Alistair]

I've been on a Gefell 582/692 hunt recently so I'd be very interested in checking this out.
Not sure if my mics would be of help, but lately I've been using Little Blondies on the OH's with a U87 or Bang and Olufsen BM3 ribbon as a mono overhead at the same time. I've been pretty happy with this for jazz stuff.
I just missed out on a KM256 this week- it was in great condition and that would have been a corker!
If time permits I'd love to hear the mics on clean electric guitar aswell.

[Lee Cardan]

Great Alistair
Have you ever tried to Mojaves ?
I'm really intrigued by them, I once had a mic die mid session and Kev up at 555 in Hawthorn lent me a pair of them to keep the session going and I was amazed! Only tested as drum overheads but I'd love to listen a little closer and try them on different sources

Sounds like this could turn out to be quite a shootout!

I'm thinking of a weekend day (Saturdays or Sundays work better for you people? let me know! happy to work around people to make this work for those interested)

I guess we could easily test every mic under the sun but we have to keep the comparison manageable.
I was thinking of restricting it to pairs, but then that would make much sense would it

I'm sure we can alternate places for mono overhead/acoustic guitar takes and get through plenty of mics on the day

[Alistair]

Hi Lee-

I checked out the Mojaves online, but I haven't heard them in person. To be honest- I was a little scared off the lift from 5kHz on shown on the frequency response graph- it differs greatly from that of the KM84. But frequency graphs dont tell the full story, and it's a great price for a good quality SDC.
Amazing how much the Mojave's look like RFT Gefell SDC's too. I actually managed to score a MV691 with M70 for a very reasonable price last night, so I'm looking forward to having a test. I found a post of yours on GS regarding 48v conversion- how did you go with this? Did you make an external lead or build it into the mic?

I'm not fussed whether it's weekday or weekend.

[Hookemeister]

soon a km88 (dual km84 capsules)

Not exactly Miles. The KM88 has a Nickel diaphragm.

[Lee Cardan]

Hi Lee-

I checked out the Mojaves online, but I haven't heard them in person. To be honest- I was a little scared off the lift from 5kHz on shown on the frequency response graph- it differs greatly from that of the KM84. But frequency graphs dont tell the full story, and it's a great price for a good quality SDC.
Amazing how much the Mojave's look like RFT Gefell SDC's too. I actually managed to score a MV691 with M70 for a very reasonable price last night, so I'm looking forward to having a test. I found a post of yours on GS regarding 48v conversion- how did you go with this? Did you make an external lead or build it into the mic?

I'm not fussed whether it's weekday or weekend.

The Mojaves are very different to the KM 84'ish mics
I've never tried a vintage KM84 against my Mercenary KM69, but from what I've read they're in a very similar ballpark. The KM69 has a very forward upper midrange, not dissimilar to the UM70. And from comparing the UM70 to the C12B (which is very relaxed in the upper mids, awesome extended highs and lows though) - they're pretty much complete opposites, which is why they pair up in the mic locker so perfectly. From the one time I heard the Mojave on drum overheads, it's much more along the lines of how the C12B sounds, which is a lovely option to have (in a SDC). So I wouldn't be too concerned about how the Mojave looks against the KM mics, they'll both offer two very different things

I was lucky enough to score a pair of MV692 bodies from Justin in SA, who had them sent to Gefell for the P48 modification. In 2004, they charged 215euro for the pair conversion, including return shipping. So it's definitely worth contacting them, hopefully the price hasn't come up too much. Those bodies are so cheap you should get another one and send them up as a pair. Sourcing an original N691 psu is an option but they're 'said' to be noisy and detrimental to the signal. Those P48 leads are ok, but you can make them for a couple of bucks worth of parts, I wouldn't be paying as much as they're going for. I think the schematic is there on the GS thread, let me know if it isn't and i'll dig it up. Definitely just sent them to Gefell for the conversion though

[Alistair]

Yeah I found the schem on GS or maybe Group DIY. Making the lead or installing it internally seems pretty straightforward, so unless I have other issues with the mic I'm not intending to send it back to Gefell.

We really need to find a pair of '84's for the test- that would make a great benchmark. My understanding was that the KM69's were 84 knockoffs with a bit of a boost up top. Check out page 16 http://www.neumann.com/download.php?download=copi0027.PDF, the 84 is almost razor flat.

[Lee Cardan]

THINKING SUNDAY 20th

Is that ok for you guys?

[danander11]

Lee, I can't make it, however I have a matched set of Lulu FET's that I could send down if you want to try them. Or if someone from Syd is going I can give them to you to carry back and forth... Let me know and I'll give you a call.

[Chris H]

no goo d for me either...... the wife's birthday

[jkhuri44]

this is so not happening in Sydney...stupid Aus wide forum...*shakes fist*

[adamcal]

I have KM84's, KM85's, KM140's, C451eb and russian OKtava mk012's, let me know when its happening, I will come if I can.

[Alistair]

20th works for me.
I've got my Gefell MV691 working with a trial internal 48v mod, but it's reasonably noisy. I'd be keen to check out the noise floor of others to see what is achievable. Otherwise great sounding mic.

[mylesgm]

20th doesn't work for me, I don't have a weekend day free till the 3rd. Any chance of a postponement till then?

[Alistair]

3rd is cool with me too. So is the 10th. I can't do the 9th.

[Lee Cardan]

!!!!! SUNDAY 3RD JUNE !!!!!

[Manning]

this is so not happening in Sydney...stupid Aus wide forum...*shakes fist*

Um, maybe we could organise our own version?

Of course we'd need to position it in such a way as to suggest it was actually a Sydney idea to begin with, as we can't be seen to be imitating Melbourne in any way.

[Chris H]

SOUNDS GOOD.

[audioio]

!!!!! SUNDAY 3RD JUNE !!!!!

Good for me... if I may come.

Do we want to compile a final mic list?

[Lee Cardan]

great guys! glad we have a date sorted

So, regarding mic choices
we could easily test every mic we could get our hand on and be there all week, so.. well, I don't really know what to do about that. At least on drum overheads, for the sake of a fair comparison should it be limited to pairs perhaps? Acoustic guitars too.. and someone mentioned electric guitars also must think about how to organise all this

I'd still LOVE to find someone with some KM54 mics!

At least for now, here's what I'll be throwing up:

AKG C12B pair
Coles 4038 pair
Beyer M101 pair
Beyer MC930 pair
Mercenary KM69 pair
Gefell UM70 / MV692 pair

[Barney Loveland]

Sun 3rd is good for me at this stage. Can bring

KM184 pair
Earthworks TC25 omni pair
Oktava MC012's if needed

Look forward to the hang.

[Alistair]

I reckon for time it's cool if we just limit it to acoustic and drum OH's. I'd love to hear them on elec but we'll definitely get a lot of info just on those two sources.

Would love to hear some KM84's in there as a benchmark too.
Gefell's with M70 caps might be more in the ballpark of KM series mics than with the UM70's as well?

[Lee Cardan]

Definitely

I'm thinking that given time restrictions, even 10 - 3 say isn't that much!
Perhaps keeping it strictly to SDCs wouldn't be a bad idea

As keen as I am to throw up some other amazing mics, now may not be the best time, but we'll see how it pans out

STILL WANT KM5x PEOPLE! keep a keen ear out for a pair

And for what it's worth, the Gefell UM70 is very similarly voiced to the KM69 (which is modeled right off the KM84)
transient response are worlds apart though.
if M70 pair appears, UM70 goes up !