Turtlerock Forum

Well, I just got something I have wanted for years.

A Ludwig Black Beauty Snare...6.5 by 14.

I am a guitar player, but I do play drums on my own recordings..

I am a little giddy....8)


sure is purdy...

no photo? no recording?

That's awesome. Will record fantastically!

I love recording brass snares, and the Black Beauty is the cream of the crop. Congratulations!

6.5 x 14 Black Beauty is a studio classic.
Great news!

Not a BB, but I picked up an Luddie Acrolite and I had to pry it back out of Mat's (Coloursound) hands!!!!!!

It's my new fav, and can find them quite reasonably priced.

I mucked around with it in the studio today....spent a while tuning it...(i am a guitar player, so drum tuning is something I am still coming to grips with) and its certainly nicer to play than the snare that came with my gretsch. It will be a little while, tillI can post an example...but I will.....

Its interesting, that the drum sounds great, open, and not damped...yet with my other snare, I had to dampen it...interesting...

more experimenting to be done..

Nice one! Black beauties are freaking awesome and you'll have fun experimenting with tuning as they can be a very versatile beast, not to mention the nice snare 'ping' that so many other snares you try to get rid of even if a good tune.

on another note & sorry to hijack but has anyone here had much experience with pork pie snares? saw a couple in gtr center last week and never heard them before...

cheers!

No direct experience with PP, but the company has a good rep.

On Ludwig Black Beauties and Acrolites, I find most Luddy metal snares are excellent in the studio.
Acrolites are a reasonably well known secret now. BB's and Supra's are real studio standards.
I always advise people looking for a snare to add at least one Ludwig to their collection.

dave01.cooper wrote:Nice one! Black beauties are freaking awesome and you'll have fun experimenting with tuning as they can be a very versatile beast, not to mention the nice snare 'ping' that so many other snares you try to get rid of even if a good tune.

on another note & sorry to hijack but has anyone here had much experience with pork pie snares? saw a couple in gtr center last week and never heard them before...

cheers!

The ping you mentioned is dead right.

Today was the first time I didn't want to dampen it out

Someone asked for sound sample...bet you are gonna regret that...8)



http://s93783807.onlinehome.us/ozlandmu ... 202012.mp3


I recorded the drums yesterday about an hour after receiving the drum.......I put one piece of moon gel on the snare, couldn't help myself, I should have left it wide open....I am going to have to experiment with tuning, mic selection and placement...and I really have to learn more than one drum fill.....8)....

Like with most of my stuff, I try to use as little EQ and Comp as possible, I think on the BB, there is a couple of dB pulled out around 150-200 (seems to be an issue with my room)

Mics are Audix i5 on snare, D6 on kick, 57s on toms, and overheads are Mojave MA100 and MA200 in a Glyn Johns setup. Kick preamp JLM99NV, snare preamp BAE 1073DMP, high tom JLM TG500, Low Tom RME UCX, Overheads are JLM Baby Animals with just the JLM input transformer....

Remember, I am a guitar player....but hey, feel free to rip me a new one if you hear something you don't like...I got thick skin, and would actually appreciate the constructive criticism (when you are a one man show, you often disappear up your own butt....)

For reference here is another song, with my snare that came standard on my Gretsch Club Jazz kit....the drums are

18" kick, 12 x 8 tom, 14 X 8 tom , snare is 14 X 5

cymbals are Sabian B8 Pro's

http://s93783807.onlinehome.us/ozlandmu ... 202012.mp3

I play and sing and write all parts myself...I have no friends...8)

Both songs, are works in progress as I slowly move toward album number three....

Seriously any advice on the Black Beauty, would be most appreciated...I am going to give it a try using the KM84 as a snare mic...If i can build up the courage....and I don't hit the bloody thing...


Also I apologise for the length of the songs, I just find it easier at this stage of writing, to have more than less...and when it comes album time, I can pick and choose which songs I want long or short...depending on the running order.

cheers

Toms sound excellent.
BB is a little thinner than I expected.
What heads do you have on it?

ChrisW wrote:Toms sound excellent.
BB is a little thinner than I expected.
What heads do you have on it?

It won't be the snares fault...


It just has the heads it came with, they have Ludwig on them......can you recommend a set ofbheadsvi could try please Chris?

Remo coated ambassador is standard for this type of drum.
Or the same head with a black dot.
I use those or the Evans equivalent (PC Rev Dot).
A diplomat resonant head underneath, or an Evans 300 clear.

Thanks so much Chris....will grab some and give them a crack

Thats Bloody AWESOME!

They are a special Snare drum arent they!

Congrads man!

Sounds good especially that rack tom, beautiful.
A little choked but that could be that moon gel you chucked on. Maybe bring it up a touch and as Chris said, Remo ambassadors - you won't look back!

Out of curiosity what beater side kick head you got on there?

Chris - i've never had success with the Evans 300's, always seem to 'loose their way' so to speak... You got any tips for tuning setups with those?

Cheers

The skins on the drums are what came with my kit when I got it.

They are evans. It doesn't say anything on it other than evans, and gretsch.

its a 18" kick drum, and it still has the front head on it. I haven't cut a hole in the skin.

I probably should pull the head off and mic the drum from inside...which I plan to ...but haven't gotten around to yet.

being a guitar player, my right foot is like a weak namby pamby girlie boy...8) so I had planned on having to do sample replacement on the kick drum parts, but...the more I do drum recording, the less I want to actually do sample replacement and would dearly love to have none of that, or auto tune, on the next album. Not criticising anyone who does that stuff, just something i would like to achieve.

I just checked the tension of the drums, with my drum dial.

The 12" rack tom is 75/75 (beater/reso)

14" tom is 75/75

Black Beauty 6.5 88/80


I like the sound of the toms at that tension.

does the tension of the BB sound about right?

cheers

If your Gretsch is a Catalina the skins are probably Evans Generas (v1).

It's pretty hard to coax much of a sound from the Gretsch 14x5 8-lug snare - they're just a bit thin sounding. Careful (even) tensioning and bringing the bottom skin up a semitone or so higher than the top is the best sound I could find on mine.

it is a Catalina...the club jazz....

mine looks exactly like this one...

http://www.dr-um.com/index.php?main_pag ... cts_id=127

I have one of the Bop cats too - mahogany (lauan) and it came with Gretsch Evans Generas. I also did similar to you and added a Pearl hammered brass snare. They're a nice kit for the $s. ;-)

The bass drum sounds good to me. A little indistinct, low thuddy, but I think that suits your material. Taking the front head off would focus the sound, which I'm not sure would suit your production sound.
New kits usually come with stock heads. These are ok, but not strictly pro quality. They are cheaper and meant to sell the kit off the floor, that's it.
Having said that, I repeat, I like your tom sound, so in a way if it ain't broke don't fix it. Proper recording heads from Remo or Evans would be a future purchase though for sure.
The BB is a tad tight and high for my tastes, and subjectively for your material. The characteristic of the BB is warmer, fatter, bigger as a snare drum.
It's all extremely subjective. Your drum sound is good. You might be able to improve it a notch with careful BB tuning and new tom heads, but you don't want to lose what you've already achieved in the process.

thanks for the advice chris...i really appreciate it.

I am going to leave well enough alone on the toms and kick....I am going to try and pick up the heads you suggested and mess with the tuning range of the BB.

thanks again everyone....

I'm a big fan of Gatzen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qxm3QunDjUs

Your BB should have several different sweet spots. So go with whatever sounds good to you, and what works for the song.

I thought the Suprasonic was the one to get actually, but congrats anyway!

Gentleman wrote:I thought the Suprasonic was the one to get actually, but congrats anyway!

I am watching out for a supra phonic.. 8) when I find one at a good price I will grab it...

Both BB and Supra are fantastic in different ways.
The Supra is slightly more metallic sounding. The BB slightly warmer IMO.
You almost can't go wrong with most of the Ludwig metal snares (inc Acrolite and HH Bronze).

There's an old Slingerland Metal Snare that's supposed to be better than the Supra, if you ask the older pro drummers, I read about it ages ago supposed to be the best snare for recording ever but hard to find.

Well there is also a Slingerland Black Beauty:
http://www.maxwelldrums.com/slingerland ... p-871.html

It's certainly highly collectable. I'm sure it sounds amazing, but I'm not sure it's the best for recording.
That vote goes to the earlier Ludwig Black Beauty (1920's) IMO:
http://orgs.usd.edu/nmm/Blackbeauty.html

I have one, and it's simply amazing.
A well known trade secret is that the less collectable, and much less expensive standard Ludwig Nickel Over Brass 1920's snare sounds almost as good as the iconic 1920's BB.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-LUDWIG- ... 446wt_1180