Virtual drums

[rick]

Ok I have been mixing records again since my divorce .. (new found hours in the day go figure !)

but really its been 7 years since I mixed with any authority in knowing I really knew what was what
and a lot of neat stuff has turned up in that time .. (when my first born arrived in the world I made the "I will be at home nursing them" choice and have been passing mixing work or long hours production stuff to be with the kids )
but that was then ..

I have a ridculous mix room set up at home for the half of the week when I am still watching my kids sleep
and with a 72 chn euphonic console giving me something to rest my feet on
and a cool way to turn the volume up and down .. while I run through protools .. I will probably get more into mixing in my late night family watch dog time as I just get so many requests .. and all money is good money at this point in history .

So drum replacement ..
not usually my word of choice , but there are times .. there are needs

I have been using massey DRT and a sample player that came with monkey tools ten ..

it works pretty well actually..

but the samples are limited to what i have and I want more and i cant help thinking one of those spiffy all in one virtual drums systems might be worth investing in .. but which one ..?
they dont cost much but i really don't want to buy them all ...just one

So for a guy that doesnt want to replace .. more enhance .. real drums .. rock drums ..
what system am I buying into ..?

which sample set ..?
which company file protocal has it going on today ?

I could not be fucked buying 14,000 snr hits over 96 different velocities with a bunch of asian chime bells tacked in knowing that I am only ever going to know if its any good after I find out how to use it

.. and the reason I am replacing the odd snr or kick is to get a set of solid hits in the first place !

so meat and potatoes drum replacement player /sample set .. ..?

do I really have to give money to the slate empire ?

thoughts ..?
whatcha got
..what dont you use ..
what do you use ..
what would you buy again in a sec ..

yes yes I know all about how NOT to use them .. I have made a career out of that

I want some help in saving time finding the one I would use if needed.

Help

[jkhuri44]

Drumagog if you want to use some known sounds. I'm sure you have some good samples you can use?

[rick]

I have all new computers all up to date software .. the last thing
I want to do ever is break out 25 years of samples and build my own library again ..
rather leave that till I just have to

I have used drumagog and bfd over the years .. is that where we are still at ?

[Ben M]

+1 Drumagog*


*(when necessary)

[jkhuri44]

Slate seems to be a big fav, would like to hear it.. I use drum agog with midi out. I can trigger sounds with dynamics and I mix Eqd electronic samples underneath and see what works. Some manual adjustment of the original with the replaced is sometimes inevitable.

[rick]

the massey trigger works really well ..
but i guess if i am going into sample library terrority i will want to be able to add my own .. and use a simple player /editor which is why i thought something specific like slate was on the cards ..?

[ChrisW]

Disclosure - I'm not a fan of Slate.
But... a lot of the American mix engineers use Trigger.
It looks pretty spectacular and apparently works very well.
I'm not a fan of the sounds, but there is a fairly simple instrument builder, where you can import your own sounds.

Of course i have virtual drum products of my own.

I'm working on something new along the lines we're talking about, but it wont be done until very late 2013, possibly 2014.

[rick]

ok Chris .. free shot

I know you have stuff but .. actually this stuff isnt my bag so i kinda dont know

so free shot please use it hawk your stuff ..
tell us what you have
what its good for ..
what its not good for
why it keeps you doing it

all under the guise of i dont want to google another drum system this week and its my forum
and i want to make life simplier


do tell ..

[ChrisW]

The 'stuff I have' is primarily meant to be midi triggered. It does get used as drum enhancement though I think.
The cheaper end is pre-processed - more for demos, songwriting and hobbyists:
http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=95
http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=9

The upper end product I'm most proud of wasn't recorded in a big room. So the close mic sounds are ideal for enhancing, replacing, but you wouldn't add our ambience mics to a rock mix:
http://www.toontrack.com/products.asp?item=56

It pains me to say it, but I think Drumagog, or Slate Trigger are probably the easiest solutions for your needs.
I don't like a lot of the Slate sounds personally, but they could be excellent as enhancers, rather than 100% replacers.
The thing I'm working on now is exactly designed for your request - like a varied toolbox for fixing problematic drums in the mix. But it's a long way off, because I'm in Oz, my partner is in London, and we've been arguing for 6 moths over who is going to take the 48 hour round trip flight to finish the damn product off. We've set ourselves a deadline of finishing it this year.

[Chinagraf]

I use Drumagog. Mainly as an enhancer to add a bit of girth or a bit of smack without processing the cr@p out of the original. I like to use it to feed reverbs too a lot so I don't have to gate the bejeezuz out of the snare cause I like things a bit more open. I have my own sample library I have built up over years like I imagine you would Rick.
It's better than the same old "That's snare 5 that everyone uses' etc. Maybe individuality is overrated?
Why don't you get someone to edit up your library of samples? Someone here would put their hand up no doubt.
I had a bunch on 1610 and a reel of half inch, but once they were all edited up on a hard drive it's easy to use them, and it's a bit like looking at old photos when you scroll through them.
I'd be interested in having a play with Trigger (not the horse) but Drumagog seems to do everything I need.

Chris I will fly to London to see you partner if you can't make it.

[jkhuri44]

Why don't you get someone to edit up your library of samples? Someone here would put their hand up no doubt.

lol, shouldnt have opened your big mouth. As of 3 weeks ago, i left my job, and will dance for money

[Wiz]

I own both drumagog an slates trigger with the CLA and deluxe expansions.

I dont use either for my own music, and only mixing for clients,and that happens so rarely (drum replacement) and last time the slate stuff got used, I didn't even instal drumagog on my new mac when I transferred all the stuff over so its just sitting there.

Tell ya what, I have picked up a couple of great bits of gear on this forum, and you have talked to me on the phone a few times, and helped me out.

You want drumagog, its yours. I cant remember whether its the full on or the one under, but you want it.. its yours free and clear.


Let me know and I will start the transfer stuff.

[rick]

christ .. unless the world rolls back and gives me money for nothin .. the very last thing i want to be doing is pretending my sample collection is worth while or worth restoring ..
I hated that stuff when it didnt work
the last thing i want to find out id i hate it now it does work ..
.......

so drumagog free .. very generous

but you dont use it ..?hmm

If slate was a different marketing type of company with less dog tags Involved
I would probably not be typing this and I would have it already ..

I did have a drumagog demo years ago .. i am suprised its still loved

if i am going drumagog i am calling you .. we can work something out better then free

i have two albums to mix and a couple of lil things so i figured i better just do it the once .

[Wiz]

christ .. unless the world rolls back and gives me money for nothin .. the very last thing i want to be doing is pretending my sample collection is worth while or worth restoring ..
I hated that stuff when it didnt work
the last thing i want to find out id i hate it now it does work ..
.......

so drumagog free .. very generous

but you dont use it ..?hmm

If slate was a different marketing type of company with less dog tags Involved
I would probably not be typing this and I would have it already ..

I did have a drumagog demo years ago .. i am suprised its still loved

if i am going drumagog i am calling you .. we can work something out better then free

i have two albums to mix and a couple of lil things so i figured i better just do it the once .

just to be clear, that I dont use it, isnt casting aspersions on either product.

Both are very good at what they do ( I agree on the Dare To Be Great Marketing of Slate, if you get that reference you remember the 70's 8) )

I just find for my music , that samples dont work, and I do the replacement by hand, when cutting the drums, i record quite a few hits at the end of the drums passes, and use them, each song different, sure you get where I am coming from.

I tried making my own trigger sample thingies, and using trigger to replace what I just described above. In the end I went back to manual, cause its usually only a hit ... here and there.


So, what does all this mean.


The slate stuff is good, if you like THAT sound and you think THAT sound will work in your productions , 35 secs listening to the demos on the slate site will probably be enough.

But, the offer stands, if you want it its yours.. and seriously, no need to worry about working anything out, you have given me your time before, this would square us up

take care and give me a shout if you want it.


cheers

Pete

[rick]

I am pretty sure the slate guy and me be would always sit in different cars at the drive in
.. its astounding how much of a following they have though ..

what else is out there that works .. ? as i said massey works fine

[The Tasmanian]

I find you dont need that many different types of samples in the end.
you pick a dozen or so sounds that have the basic character, and nice EQ allows you to alter.
I often use DRT to do what you are doing, and find that even though I have heaps of samples, I still go back to a small trusty set that get me there every time... and they are often ones I've recorded to 2inch first.
Even if you get one of these wiz bang programs, I still reckon you will be unlikely to use 90% or more of the sounds once you are used to it.

[rick]

you see chris i am totally with you ..

part of me is just hoping somebody will say look 93 % of the dog tags will always remain unused and its overkill as a program

stick with massey and get the xyz player and the abc drum set .. has 5 snares and 4 kicks you will like

but i am also hoping to get schooled .. so my mind is open

its not money so much as i really dont want to have to learn everything for myself

[ChrisW]

I'm uber not a fan of Slate Digital, but sometimes people just make a good product.
Drumagog hosts VST like the ones I linked to above. Faster and less hassle than midi (according to the Drumagog blurb).
Does Drumagog import your own sounds? That's something that would sway me one way or the other.
I have some of my samples on DAT from the 90's in London, if you're interested in different flavours to add to your own.

[ChrisW]

part of me is just hoping somebody will say look 93 % of the dog tags will always remain unused and its overkill as a program

stick with massey and get the xyz player and the abc drum set .. has 5 snares and 4 kicks you will like

I don't know the Massey as I'm not a Pro Tools user. I've looked at the Youtube demos before and it looks sweet.
I'm with you on Slate and can probably guess you wont like the included sounds.
I'm happy to contribute some raw sounds if you decide to go back to building a custom library of your own.

[jkhuri44]

you can import your own sounds in the drumagogs. only reason i'd recommend it, i still always did find i need to do slight time adjustment.

[ChrisW]

What are you guys doing with your own sounds these days?
Single hits at one velocity, or importing a few hits at different velocities?
My 90's stuff is largely 3 hits at 3 velocities. I have some 80's stuff that is the old one hit wonder.

[rick]

you can import your own sounds in the drumagogs. only reason i'd recommend it, i still always did find i need to do slight time adjustment.

nooooooo i dont want to do slight time adjustment ever again ..
I F@#$ing hate slight time adjustment .. I spent 1985 until this morning in slight time adjustment

I want NONE slight time adjustment

vote one none slight time adjustment


------
velocity..? I am thinking hitting the snare the same way all the time , must either be really really hard
or really really easy ..cause nearly nobody does it .
I want just the one hit .. sounding like a record ... do i really need to break out the ricky fattar dats i did before i could spell daw ?
..

[jkhuri44]

i always do different velocities. 3-4 max. 1 hard main sound which is in all the backbeats, and 2-3 for fills. velocity mapping takes care of the rest.

A drum fill will a basket ball thwack sounds really weird, and only gets emphasized in mastering imo if you're going the 1 hit route, and taking out the layered snare for fills never worked for me.

that said, im not as experienced as some on this board, but that's been my experience.

[rick]

well drum fills are the reason i don't replace but enhance ..
but come on who is schooling me

EVERYbody on gearslutz is replacing everything .. dont we do that around here ..?

[Chinagraf]

He he ... dog tags .. he he ..
Botox?

[jkhuri44]

yeah, i've always enhanced...if you replace, i dont see the point in recording a drum kit in the first place..might as well midi program.

[ChrisW]

He he ... dog tags .. he he ..
Botox?

... what is it now? Peptides.

We should make a custom Turtlerock sample library - kicks and snares.
I'm even happy to turn up and record one day. Single hits and threes are easy-peasy.
I wouldn't do 100 velocities and round robins, over three zones of the snare head for free.

[rick]

You know what
When I get to the damn drum room built I reckon
We will
Can you do that
Have a free forum .. No advertising
And give stuff away to members for nothing ?

Oh yes I forgot we do that already
So sure why not .. The forum samples


I better save up to get some tags first !

[Chinagraf]

Make the samples only available in the proprietory .trock format.

[rick]

you know after all this nonsense i am going to have to download slate and drum a gog and decide for myself
which is exactly what i was trying to avoid ..

comes with the territory i guess

dogtag free zone