Turtlerock Forum

Hey y'all,

Need the brains trust help!
Think it's gotten to that point now to take the plunge & rewire the main studio with bantam patchbays. Going to be a hell of a job but we've run out of rack real estate and it's high time to replace all the bits of gear/control room with similar wire whilst integrating the new additions properly.

SO

punch down or solder style? these in particular have caught my eye but are pretty $ when you can get switchcraft solder style new off VK for around $330. Saving on dsub connectors too i suppose...

http://www.audiolot.com/proaudio/sales/products?id=175

I'm going to need to sit down and really nut out what lines we need normalled, half normalled, isolated, where grounded etc but that shouldn't be a major issue.

And roughly how much does 96 TT patch leads cost? cheaper/easier to make your own too?

Thanks guys!
Cheers

Hi Dave,

I've been very happy with Switchcraft D-sub (96-point) bays. They have front panel three-way switching for normal, half-normal and through, which alone is worth the price of admission IMO.

TT/bantam cables come in cheap moulded plug types and more robust/durable makes, with prices to suit. We have a few that were bought in bulk packs for a few dollars per cable, but they don't last. The better ones are $12 and upwards each. I've made some up as well, but they're more tedious to solder (or crimp) than most other cables (excepting D-subs, maybe) and didn't save any money to speak of (decent new TT plugs are rarely sold below premium prices, I've found).

Cheers,

I definitely recommend getting d-subs so that you can alter arrangements as necessary without desoldering etc. I haven't used one of the switchable normal/denormalled units but that flexibility would also be great. Patchbays are a place that you want to be of the highest quality and convenience. Even though it seems you are spending cash on something that is not as cool as a new tube comp you will swear under your breath limitlessly if you don't get a good setup and when you have a good setup you will swear it was your best purchase.

Think up the absolute best scenario for yourself (without thinking of cost) and then make that happen because you wont regret it.

mylesgm wrote:I definitely recommend getting d-subs

Agreed.

mylesgm wrote:I haven't used one of the switchable normal/denormalled units but that flexibility would also be great.

Maybe. You'd probably do something like...

Studio -> mic pre: full
Insert send -> insert return: half
Direct out or group out -> recorder in: half
Recorder out -> monitor in: half

How often would you be changing that? So programming of normals using solder pads is not a big deal, but easy connectivity using Dsubs is, I reckon, especially if you plan for extra points for future purchases. You can easily change the position of mic pres and compressors and change the termination at the gear end without having to muck about (redoing punchdowns or soldering dsubs... painful!)

The Signex ones are well priced.

audioio wrote:

mylesgm wrote:I definitely recommend getting d-subs

Agreed.

mylesgm wrote:I haven't used one of the switchable normal/denormalled units but that flexibility would also be great.

Maybe. You'd probably do something like...

Studio -> mic pre: full
Insert send -> insert return: half
Direct out or group out -> recorder in: half
Recorder out -> monitor in: half

How often would you be changing that? So programming of normals using solder pads is not a big deal, but easy connectivity using Dsubs is, I reckon, especially if you plan for extra points for future purchases. You can easily change the position of mic pres and compressors and change the termination at the gear end without having to muck about (redoing punchdowns or soldering dsubs... painful!)

The Signex ones are well priced.

As I see it, the big deal with both D-sub and front-panel switchable normalisation is that you can swap out gear, alter the bay configuration or change your mind about how you want something normalled, without inviting a major headache.

To be fair, changing the wiring around can still involve a bit of work - you may have to re-terminate a snake or two. But you can do the work for a block of 8 channels at a time without disturbing the others, and you can take the snake to a comfortable work bench under a light instead of crawling around behind racks with a soldering iron.

For a small rig or one that's relatively static it's obviously less of an issue. But even then, I'd rather have the options and convenience of a D-sub and front-panel switchable bay. As far as I'm concerned, patchbays are *all* about options, convenience and flexibility and the last thing I want is a patchbay that itself becomes a source of inconvenience or inflexibilty.

DarkSky wrote:

audioio wrote:

mylesgm wrote:I definitely recommend getting d-subs

Agreed.

mylesgm wrote:I haven't used one of the switchable normal/denormalled units but that flexibility would also be great.

As far as I'm concerned, patchbays are *all* about options, convenience and flexibility and the last thing I want is a patchbay that itself becomes a source of inconvenience or inflexibilty.

Precisely. The patchbay must serve the purpose of being a flexible hub for studio routing.

Thanks for the input guys. certainly some food for thought that's for sure. and as you've all said, a patchbay can make or break a studio & want it to be so anyone can walk in and be used to the setup but most of all comfortable for us!

Don't really mind about changing the terminals at the rack gear end but don't want to have to be fart assing about re-soldering the patchbays when I buy a new piece of gear so a fully wired dsub or some form of similar connection at the bay end seems the best idea.

Atm we're running 8 x 48 point neutrik TRS bays all isolated/de-normalled so can patch what ever line/mic/pre/eq/comp/daw in & out/console tape/mic/group in & out to where ever and I'm getting annoyed at the spaghetti that's generated and consistency in signal flow so some full and half normalising will need to come into play on some rows for sure. we've only really figured out all the nuances at the new location in the last 8 months so before that was all a guessing game hence all the de-normalled... I suppose every studio operates differently but what's your guys rough layouts from top to bottom?

and the other point of course is grounding of the bays. where when and how?!

cheers

I like the Redco DSub patchbays, built like a tank - best move I ever made going DSub.

Its the leads that get your wallet - years ago when the dollar was shit,
I bought 100x mogami patch leads at $30 each... ouch.
Still using them every day, never had a fault in any. (now about 12 years old - with full time use)

I tried out cheaper "made in the same factory as Mogami" leads - all are failing within 5 years.
Get really good quality patch cables, not cheapies - its a must. Even if you have to get less to start with.