Turtlerock Forum

My son has confirmed he is now not heading down the Studio owners path. For me this is the bad news. However for someone this is good news as over the next 6 months or so I will be assembling the biggest and best single offering of rare/eclectic gear to ever be offered in Modern times. I wont be going down the path of multiple sales but will assemble a web site with the full break down along with pics. This sale will be a one price offering with the buyer taking all. ( I feel better not breaking up the collection/assembly). Meanwhile I will have Rob working overtime completing all those round to it jobs and getting the last 20-30 items up to scratch. Norm

I'm available for adoption.

Manning and I could be your new twins...............

Oh lordy

Gentlemen, we may have to form a Syndicate

Count me in, Al.

Send it all to Swaziland? I know a good place...

norm wrote:My son has confirmed he is now not heading down the Studio owners path. For me this is the bad news. However for someone this is good news as over the next 6 months or so I will be assembling the biggest and best single offering of rare/eclectic gear to ever be offered in Modern times. I wont be going down the path of multiple sales but will assemble a web site with the full break down along with pics. This sale will be a one price offering with the buyer taking all. ( I feel better not breaking up the collection/assembly). Meanwhile I will have Rob working overtime completing all those round to it jobs and getting the last 20-30 items up to scratch. Norm

Commiseration's Norm. I hope it all works out well for him and you. I have 5 sons and none look like they want to follow in their fathers footsteps and persue recording as a serious option. So I suppose when I'm finished with it I'll be selling off some gear as well. Won't be for a few years yet though!
Can't say I blame them really, the way the studio business is. They are each into music in their own way though, with two good guitarists, one drums, two editing and creating loop based music etc, and my daughter plays keys. So there is still plenty of music.

I have often wondered, about a form of studio collective... now might be the time.

Wiz wrote:I have often wondered, about a form of studio collective... now might be the time.

I've wondered the same thing many a time (as someone on the fringes of the industry that intends to step into it with both feet slowly but surely).

There seems to be more and more studios for sale and closing down sales than reports of studios doing gangbusters.

Maybe the new model is just one or two pay-by-the-hour awesome live rooms somewhere, and a giant pool of gear that everyone shares?

As soon as I win lotto that's what I'd set up.

Feel free to slap me down though. I'm no expert on studio business that's for sure.

ether wrote:Feel free to slap me down though. I'm no expert on studio business that's for sure.

LOL, neither am I. I run a moderately successful software consultancy firm and I regard my studio as my "yacht".

My hat is off to the Chris Vallejo's of the world who manage to make ends meet in this brutally tough world.

As far as the collective, I'm putting cash aside already. From what little I know of Norm's collection it will be a mighty event. As long as I get to play with the C800 I'll be happy.

Norm - I'm glad for your son, and understand your disappointment.
But it is a wise move to NOT get involved in making MP3's for a life.

Its NOT a recording industry anymore - its a data industry.
You can build a 20 million $ facility - only to make 50 cent MP3's (that most will be ripped off anyway)

Your son is a lucky young man to not fall into a dead end career.

With everything that I know about this business
I keep trying to get disillusioned like most of my long
Out the business friends ..
But really the disillusionment just won't stick

The time to give up your studio dreams are when you
Want to .. When life calls you somewhere else.

I have been reading your mp3 line of things Chris

I don't agree ... Well I do .. But I don't

I don't seem to remember things being any different
Really .. But I work on different trucks n roads
To most people .. Moving the same old rocks though

Takes a certain mind having a studio
For better or worse

But Rick - you are at the good end of the market.

Bands have nothing to spend on recording, hoping to use some backyard MBox dude with bedroom experience, a whole (18 months worth) of attitude, and spend all the money fixing the problems in mastering.

It does take a certain mind to have a studio.
But why starve for MP3's?
Rewind 10 years ago - different story

Mastering is the last bastion to fall... they all want to record with cheapest possible shit - hoping you mastering guys can make it respectable.

If I wanted to continue and survive in this industry - I'd become a mastering engineer - no question.
That does not belittle your great craft !

Its just things have changed - radically.
Its not the same - or anywhere near what it was.
Its an industry trying to sell to a consumer what is considered as worthless data.
And no, sorry - I'm not jaded.

rick wrote:With everything that I know about this business
I keep trying to get disillusioned like most of my long
Out the business friends ..
But really the disillusionment just won't stick

The time to give up your studio dreams are when you
Want to .. When life calls you somewhere else.

I have been reading your mp3 line of things Chris

I don't agree ... Well I do .. But I don't

I don't seem to remember things being any different
Really .. But I work on different trucks n roads
To most people .. Moving the same old rocks though

Takes a certain mind having a studio
For better or worse

I was flicking through an old AT magazine the other day Rick and came across your article on cash nets.
There are some pearls of wisdom in there, that's for sure.

People are still making money from music. Sometimes a lot of money.
This month's release of Drum Media is the last... ever. At least in Sydney anyway.
Two months ago a long term business associate in print media ceased trading and closed up shop.
I deal with a CD replicator here in Sydney at least a few times a week and often chat about "the end" that they know is coming.

Endings and new beginnings. I am sure people will always find a way to make it work.

And Norm - if it was my son, I would want him to put survival first, by all means have creative interests and push them as much as possible.

The BIG growth future is surviving climate change - really , anything related (sorry for you dinosaurs)
The future industries are - water/ energy/ science / adaptation/ disease control / community/ growing food / land management/ data systems for saving lives etc etc.

Chris, I think you're being a bit pessimistic, but if you are correct, then life without art is hardly worth surviving, even for a hard nosed old technician/engineer like me.

I agree totally Bob
life without art is not worth living.
So, one must tread carefully into a career where you make art to be perpetually stolen - as in engineering/mixing/producing. And collect a huge array of expensive equipment to make this art.

I would not recommend it to my children, but would definitely encourage them to pursue a creative path, with a firm grip on the realities of survival.
Being a musician/composer is a different kettle of fish, same theft issues to deal with, plus theft of copyright/ownership of an almost worthless artform.
At least you can do a gig as a muso..

Make art..

I feel that this is just another ebb or flow in the cycle .... because.... I remember the days when young bands would record in the garage using that great modern device called the cassette recorder with a cheap dynamic mic, and think that it could be fixed in the mix (when they were discovered)... and the years prior to that recording on a reel-to-reel with 3" spools of cheap tape and a similar cr@ppy mic - so now they do it on a computer - not much difference...

and with 6 billion+ ears in the market, surely there are buyers for the commercial product.... so you sell a million copies for 50c rather than a hundred thousand for $5..... an mp3 rather than a vinyl single ....

from where I sit it was always hard to make a living out of music - not much has changed...

The choice (as always) is to do what you like, and if you make money then you're lucky, or do what makes money but it will never be what you like so tough luck

I agree Ian,
there are more opportunities for exposure, but that's just about it - exposure.

But there is a few huge factors now also weighing in on our industry, and that is almost no record companies are putting money into albums.

I know from first hand experience, that multi million selling artists are now not getting advances, or they are so pathetic, as a large growing chunk of the budget goes more into marketing/video/social media companies etc.

Some medium sized independents even baulk at covering mastering now? - this has only really happened in only the last couple of years. Even the smallest independent labels paid for mastering - not anymore.

Ive worked for decades, with a mixture of all of the big majors from all around the globe,the smallest players, niche, underground, private labels, and the majority have now stopped paying for recording.
As in - they don't have the money.

A lot of bands also personally using their own money to pay for albums, planning to get back the investments by live sales of CD's and merch to repay the recording costs.
Now CD's dont sell at shows.... no shops to sell them in...not worth printing.

why? - because the public see a CD as a cheap device that holds data.
A thumb drive has value because it goes in your pocket, and can be wiped, used for more data.

Vinyl does sell, which I believe, is because it holds music in the grooves,and because its not data.
Its personal, like a book.

So the artist has to pay now - for everything,
...and attempt to survive playing music, let alone paying for/rehearsing/demoing /recording studio's/mastering.

But they cannot fund them.
I'm happy for the garage bands, doin it themselves with whatever they can muster, I admire them, and am glad that they will keep putting out work as they don't need anyone to pay for it. They are the smart.

Meanwhile, the market psychology is that data is worthless, endless, and music is seen and purchased/stolen through that prism.

Recording industry is not looking very promising as a career path.... best as a hobby.

Apart from that everything is OK.

Sorry to hijack the thread Norm,
but cant you keep a basic set of great gear for yourself and your son to enjoy as a fine hobby into the future?

For me its all or nothing when going down the disposal route. Yes he has a U47w and a few U87 Neumann's amongst others as well as some top line basic equipment for recording ect but that is not a pin @#$% of what I have in the shed's. Regards Norm

The Motherload cometh.
Norm what is the web address?

norm wrote:For me its all or nothing when going down the disposal route. Yes he has a U47w and a few U87 Neumann's amongst others as well as some top line basic equipment for recording ect but that is not a pin @#$% of what I have in the shed's. Regards Norm

To Chris T
I'm quietly hoping you kick off a thread soon regarding your recent posts on the state of things in our industry. I think it's time to get the discussion rolling (full stop) Away from other threads.
Particularly the continuation of pirate download/streaming sites (that are supported by major corporations advertising through their online...whoa the?) and the paid streaming service excuse - "at least it's better than getting paid nothing" concept...
I'd love to contribute to, and listen too, the positive and creative steps that we could all imagine for the future of our craft, the way music formatting is represented in the new web age and the new economy we establish for it.

Yeah Ben - your right,
but I have been reluctant to be so public about the destruction of a once great industry full of talent, as I dont want to put off the young up and coming bods....
But yes - lets do it, I think Ive said it all related in amongst various threads here.
OK - done, lets let the cats out of the bag....

We need to lance the boils of beliefs.
Thanks for the prod.

Just while we are here .. if you think its alright for me because my end historically is mastering and thats the place to be ..
you are very mistaken

the Mastering bubble has well burst ..
i think your way behind in your statements chris
its glum all over the world

advising somebody to get into mastering is madness ..

and sure vinyl is selling again .. ( but actually its not) or is it a viable business for anybody .. note the close of three vinyl factories recently ..

back to the sale of the century !:)

Back on topic - Norm: will the C800G be included in the sale? I'm budgeting to get one, and would rather get mine from someone as reputable as yerself, if that was an option.

I'm all ears.

How about a teaser list and a ballpark price. I'm interested.

Mini List:-
Pair Raytheon RL10
GE BA5A and Power Supply
Pair Gates Dual Limiters
Pair (Original) Teletronix LA2A
Pair Rohde & Schwarz U23
Pair RCA BA6a
Pair RCA 96A Limiters
Pair Berlant Tube Mic Pre's
Pair Pultec EQP1A
Limpander LE-3508
Publison Fullmost
Pair AWA Big 1
Pair AWA Big 1a
Gates M2996 Limiter
ITA LA1A
Pair Rola 66 Tube Mic Pre's
Pair Klien & Hummel UE-100
5 Melcor AM1510 Pre-Amp with Limiters
UA 175
8 Channel Quad Eight (Mitsubishi) Eq
Fairchild 670

Small teaser list, have not got round to the main lot as yet. This is going to take some time. Regards Norm