Turtlerock Forum

i'm looking at guitar amps. small ones. like 15W, max.
i had a look at the www.amptone.com link posted by jkhuri44, and i reckon it's pretty handy.

so, what small amps do people like?
the small Vox combo's?
the epiphone valve combos or heads? (if anyone's been able to get one)
how about the marshall ministack (yes, i know its solid state)
hell, i'd love to go an orange "tiny terror" but it's currently outta my budget when i factor in a speaker cab . . .
anything else i should look at?

chris.

i reckon if your a bit of a diy head...i reckon your best bet for a small amp would be to build your own 5 watt tube amp that supposedly is pretty loud.

There's a project called the AX84 Co operative Tube Amp project

http://www.ax84.com/

...it has plans for a small tube amp. I reckon that will sound better than the solid state mini amps purely for the fact that if your using pedals and overdrives and what not, you wont be getting nasty clipping and such. And also, you can install which ever 12 or 15 inch speaker you like.

thats one option...also you could mill around second hand music stores and try snatch up old school smaller amps, maybe like fenders and such.

I'm currently on a Divided By 13 bender.

I'm about to order an RSA 31. This is basically a modern day vox ac30 but it has a half power switch bringing it down to 16 watts.

Very good recording amps.

I've been going straight out of my guitar pick into my laptop via firewire, cleanest signal path i've ever heard, no noisy instruments degrading my chain.

i'm hearing you re. the valve amps. i'm working on that side of things.

and up till now, i have di'd guitars or modeled cabs (sansamp / marshall rmp1) - i've never felt it truely captures the movement of air in a space . . .
(and clean is not entirely what i'm after when it comes to guitars)

but surely there is still a place for a solid-state guitar amp?
the vox pathfinder 15, maybe? or a small fender? or the marshall mini-stack?

any experiences?

also, how do smaller speakers compare to the flappin 12" jobbies, in a recording context?
i would have imagined that a smaller speaker would (within limits) produce less low-end, which could be a good thing when mixing . . .
or should i be aiming for a low-power amp driving a full-size (10" or 12") in order to achieve a true 'rock' sound?

chris
(mfdu)

i think solid state is usable...but at the moment, i just dont see the point of it...in rock/metal stuff...i might ...if im crazy be tempted to go and switch the silicone diode switch on the back of a boogie recto, to get a "tight" sound...but i just really dont see the point.

also in clean stuff, if you have speakers with headroom...solid state might be good for a crystal clear "twang".

the only other use i would have for them is that they are cool to do lead in lofi/shitty sounding guitar effects for an intro to a song...before something "hardcore" kicks in...hahaha.

but still in all the above scenarios i obviously prefer tube tone...and from the sounds of things, you would too.

with speakers, i think it all depends on the wattage they handle....if you are pumping the load of a 5 watt amp section into a 25 watt 12 inch...there will be headroom....however, the closer the wattage of the speaker to the amp and when you start pushing the limits of the speaker...you get non-linear speaker distortion as that amptone site describes, which is probably desirable for a vintage cab/rock sound.

i personally like the natural low end in large quads..and feel there is something missing if i take it out...but that all depends on the awesomeness of the bass recording in a mix situation...sometimes if you have shitty bass guitar, that is fixed by awesome low end on a guitar recording, and vice versa.

a low power tube amp like a fender driving a 2X12 combo...with a nice chain of nasty fuzz pedals sounds like your cup of tea man...unfortunately i think those small solid state 300 dollar things on the market now adays are a waste of time...if good tone is something you value.

Sorry to ramble...another option, and definately a cheaper one is buying a second hand tube bass amp...and use pedals to get the distortion you like....they have huge bass headroom, MAAAYBEE less highs, but im not too sure about that one...

thanks for your ramble - that's what forums are all about

when i was a bass-boy (back in the day), i used an 18" sub and 2x10" mid with a solid state carlsborough head. it was big and nasty. lotsa fun.

personally, i'm getting right into a shitty lo-fi cracking and crumbling distortion amp sound. love them non-linearities! add a russian big muff and stir till it thickens.
but lets face it, not every client is wanting to sound like GG allan.

but what i'm fishing for, and what i'm hearing from ya, is that a 12" speaker is going to give a fuller sound than (eg) a 6.5" in a combo.
(at the risk of a 'der!' moment)

i'll keep fishing, and see if i can find some kind of old tube combo with 12" speaker or two.

maybe i should post in the 'for sale / wanted' to see if anyone has anything they wanna get rid of . . .

chris.

..and you don't want your clients to leave your studio smelling like GG Allin was there...

maybe old small tube amps have something to offer... say for example something at http://www.grouseguitars.com.au

Personally, I've always preferred tube to solid state, but because most of my work has been live I've tended to live in 50 or 100W, 2x12" land. Or on bass, in 4x10" or 15" land. But there's got to be something to say for a Champ-style, 10W head through a 10" speaker in a small studio to give you good clean tones that nicely breaks up without become ear-shattering.

Since you can DIY - http://www.hoffmanamps.com or http://www.tedweber.com/ are some other resources of interest

Some of the old Diason, Maton, Moody and Golderntone amps are cool, just everyone has worked this out now :oops:

I have a little Subway Rocket Mesa which I have owned for years, which for me is a life time as I used to buy and sell all the time. Picked it up $600 s/h.
You might as for all bargaiuns, look around and be lucky

sorry i couldnt recommend an actual place, im in Sydney....shit's scarce, but yeh...go second hand man,

seems the best option for you

if you can score a second hand mesa amp...or any sort of second hand option...that would be better than any "money saving option" around.

i dont think anything fun will result from solid state stuff :(

We have a couple of quads driven by Marshall (tubes) and a Rivera 5512 which absolutely smokes.

Moody.......Goldentone..............God, I haven't played through either one of those since about '66.

8)

Ausrock wrote:We have a couple of quads driven by Marshall (tubes) and a Rivera 5512 which absolutely smokes.

Moody.......Goldentone..............God, I haven't played through either one of those since about '66.

8)

Yeah although Chris is looking for cheap and valve....i picked up my moody for $150.

Personally I would like 3-4 different amps if money was no object.
Mesa Mark IV
Matchless DC-30
Fender blackface Vibrolux
Marshall Plexi
Oh ok maybe through in a dual rectro for the kids.
Or just buy a pod maybe he he
Yeah I like the classics..
Also love Soldano's and always wanted a labsystem cage amp as well.

the epiphone valve junior is getting rave reveiws after being modded, which is really easy to do apparently. deluxe audio have them listed as being available

it is 2 tubes, 5 watts, combo is less then $350..... do a few mods which are all over the net at the moment and bang...... it just has a volume knob on it thats it....

mercury magnetics offer a mod, quite expensive.......

there are alos a few mod kits on ebay.....

and then there are just mods that are all over the net

now I havent done this but I will........

i was kind'a trying to avoid mentioning the epiphone valve junior mods, in case other folks beat me to the units (ha ha ha)

anyone see the recent sale of the Goldentone trademark on ebay? a guy in windsor who had the name and made a couple of amps, but needed to get out of the game. just a point of interest . . .

if money were no object, i'd start with the marshall 20W valve head and a 2x12 cab, and then swap from it to the vox valve head which i would also get if money were no object. and the cute little orange head.

money being an object, and the object being sound waves in air (as opposed to modelling)
i'm thinking the peavey 50W valveking is getting geed reviews
but i'm more a "preloved" kind of guy, so it's probably going to be a slowly growing collection of wierd old combo's - got my eye on a couple of old 40W 12" valve combo's - just gotta go in and rip out on them to see if they break up how i like . . .

when i asked, i knew there was no easy answer.
i guess i was imagining eventually collecting a few of assorted cheap-ass low wattage amps, and i was wondering if that was a reasonable approach . . .

anyway, cheers and merry christmas to yoooz all!

chris.

If you are into DIY (I know you are) then http://www.ceriatone.com is the place for guitar amps. Nik is in Singapore and has great shipping rates. His reputation is excellent.

That being said, I wouldn't bother building a 5w AX84 style amp because you can buy and mod the epiphone valve junior combo for > $300 which is cheaper than you can build it after buying chassis and xfmrs and tubes and a weber speaker.

BUT, if you want something Push Pull 15w or more then ceriatone is the place. There's also a mob in melbourne making guitar speakers that are getting some attention lately, melmusic sell them - good prices.

Peter

edited to fix my typing gumbo

it's www.ceriatone.com (you mis-typed) - they look good. i'll keep them in mind.

i've been eying off blank amp kits - [url]http://www.blankguitarsandamps.com.au/Amp%20kits.htm[/url]. they're $950 for a complete kit, so not as "cost effective" as modding an epiphone junior. but probably sounds heaps better. that's why i say "cost effective" . . .

chris.

Just bought my son a Orange AD30 with a Fender Super Sonic cab (same speakers as in the Orange cab). We'll be recording EG over Christmas so I'll tell you what it sounds like.

Nick

A friend of mine makes a killer Matchless DC30 clone for about $1,500.

I kept a close eye on the cash converter stores for a while and picked up two nice 15 watt valve amps that are great for studio work. One is a Rex mascott that distorts easier than the other which is a Goldentone. For a very overdriven option i go into one of my Byer pre's then into the Rex. Sensational for lap steel super sustain. Both have the old Rola alnico speakers which give sweet highs. Both amps were under $100.

I bought a Laney VC30 (Vox AC30 copy) for $300 at a Pawn shop in the city. New valves and new Jensen Vintage Paper speakers and this thing absolutely rocks. The clean sound is the best I've heard and takes valve pedals etc very well. Laney valve amps are sound awesome and are cheap to buy!!

The best combo's i have ever heard are the Fender Deluxe's and a 60's Ampeg Gemini. The gemini has the greatest clean jangly overdrive i have ever heard so i had to buy one.

The best head i have come across after years of trying different amps would have to be any of the earlyy 70's hiwatt. I stopped searching when i found my DR504, they are perfect in every way, pure tone machines.

Cheers,
Sean.

i'm definately prepared to re-tube and replace speakers - i'm hoping i'll have some pawn-shop lovin'. so much more fulfulling than a straight retail purchase!!!

chris

Just in the middle of tracking a project at the moment using the following amps

Goldentone Bassmaster 40
Vase Bassman 100
(both into a Vase 4 x 12")

Diason (15w tube jobby)
Maton V202

Solid State:

Danelectro Nifty Fifty
Fender Princeton Stereo Chorus
Soap Amp

Both the Diason and the Maton have plenty of tone and power for recording. The Maton sounds "sort of" like a fender twin when clean, very full range. The Maton and the Goldentone are probably the most versatile as the Diason breaks up really quickly so is a bit of a one trick pony.

The surprise was the Soap Amp which I bought OS last year - it's about the size of a bar of soap, solid state and has a v. small speaker (maybe 2" diameter?) but with the right mic gave a sound to rival the other amps.

The Vase is going to be used for Bass on the recording and I scored it in the trading post for $400 with the original cab and 1970's tubes still inside! I know there are a couple of dealers who look exclusively for old Aussie tube amps (can't remember the websites off the top of my head) but I reckon you're better off waiting for that lucky buy as the prices some of them are going for are sometimes exhorbitant...

hey Text_Edifice - you're the first person to have actually listed solid-state amps. thank you - i'd been thinking that there is surely a need for them in a recording context . . .

hope you all had a great christmas. cheers, and here's to 2007!

chris.

ive heard the roland JC amps (jazz chorus)...have a sweet as clean tone...used in clean stuff by Metallica....i cant personally say that i enjoyed that tone...but hey..its metallica...they're richer than i am...so that tone must be doin something for someone...hahaha


i think i said it before, but solid state does have a use...for modern metal stuff maybe as an overdub...

designers say silicone diode solid state distortion is tighter and has more headroom than tube rectifiers...ive never been compelled to flick the tube/solid state switch...but i willbe next time i head in to see how that sounds...out of interest.

i think also, good solid state has its uses where "overdrive" is not wanted...crystal clear cleans are probably best done solid state...MAAAYYYBE....you might lose some depth, but that might be wank...let your ears judge.

I know this thread is about "amps" for recording guitar, but I don't suppose anyone is considering a comment on Amplitube 2 and/or Guitar Rig 2.... I've been VERY impressed of late... haven't mic'd up the '30 in a while!

I also have a little JCM900 combo that sounds absolutely fantastic with the Les Paul Classic, in combination with a few old fav' (and a few DIY) stompers!

Dave

At the end of the day with amp sims.. If you like the sound you like the sound, how you got that sound who cares. Personally I always found them all to lack life and be some what fizzy at higher gain settings.. I used to use sims more for layers then mains.. Although I did like to use them for bass tracks..

I hate the fact they have preset amp names, I think people get fooled by GUI's sometimes.. If a plugin looks like something they think it sounds like something, although rarely do.. That annoys me.
Just say dirty amp, clean amp etc although not sell as well

i wanted this topic to be based on guitar amps - not modelling boxes or plugins.
i want to move air, and use a transducer to convert that air movement into an electrical signal which can then be passed through any variety of hardware signal processors.

mainly because i am pushing the "track it like you mean it" sensibility - i think it is a positive thing to close off "options" sometimes . . .

so here's where i'm at right now :
the Voc AC15 is looking good, but i haven't gone and played one yet
peavey valveking 50 is more output than i want
would love to give a home to the marshall 20W tube head
or the orange 5W tiny terror!
carr amps look awsome, but out of my price range
then there's finding an unloved classic in the trading post or evilbay . . .

chris.

Couple more observations - different types of amp give different types of sounds all of which are useful depending on the context of what / how you're recording.

I've used a Roland JC amp for jazz recordings and they have a fantastic clean tone. Similarly the Fender princeton I mentioned is great for a particular cutting / ringing tone which is sometimes perfect for placement in a mix.

My preference for acquiring new gear is to go for low wattage amps with a particular character - my thoughts are it's better to pick up three small amps that give you some different tone combinations than one 'go to' amp - each of the amps I mentioned have their own sound and work better with particular mics / placement.

Whatever works I guess.

[quote="Text_Edifice"]Couple more observations - different types of amp give different types of sounds all of which are useful depending on the context of what / how you're recording.

I've used a Roland JC amp for jazz recordings and they have a fantastic clean tone. Similarly the Fender princeton I mentioned is great for a particular cutting / ringing tone which is sometimes perfect for placement in a mix.

My preference for acquiring new gear is to go for low wattage amps with a particular character - my thoughts are it's better to pick up three small amps that give you some different tone combinations than one 'go to' amp - each of the amps I mentioned have their own sound and work better with particular mics / placement.

Whatever works I guess.[/quote

Couldn't agree more. Lateral thinking opens lots of possibilities especialy for a DIYer. Chris, look out for one of these older valve amps or an old valve PA or Hi fi mono block, and add the speaker box yourself. As well as the Goldentone and Rex i have a valve amp built to the design of a Quad using two KT88 tubes and this amp sounds just majic. It cost me nothing + $200 to restore and i use it with a varity of speakers to add to the diversity. One of the old movie projector boxes with a 12 inch Goodwin speaker, one with a 10 inch Rola, a 12 inch EV, all sound different
This one on eBay could be good, a 25 watt Phillips valve PA head
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VINTAGE-PHILIPS- ... dZViewItem